1 00:00:26,870 --> 00:00:23,279 hello and welcome to the skeptic zone 2 00:00:30,060 --> 00:00:26,880 episode number 51 on the 9th of oktober 3 00:00:32,580 --> 00:00:30,070 2009 Richard Saunders here with you once 4 00:00:34,530 --> 00:00:32,590 again from Sydney Australia in this 5 00:00:38,009 --> 00:00:34,540 week's episode we have more reports from 6 00:00:40,410 --> 00:00:38,019 dr. aichi visiting New York she went and 7 00:00:44,250 --> 00:00:40,420 dropped in on the Jolly 13 club a club 8 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:44,260 dedicated to bad luck and after that we 9 00:00:49,740 --> 00:00:46,210 have the think tank with Joe Ben amoud 10 00:00:52,020 --> 00:00:49,750 dr. H E and Diane but before we get to 11 00:00:53,729 --> 00:00:52,030 all that a few quick announcements don't 12 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:53,739 forget to visit our Facebook page and 13 00:01:00,270 --> 00:00:55,690 you can go there by following the link 14 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:00,280 from ww skeptic zone TV now our reporter 15 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:02,890 Kylie Sturgis has been very busy putting 16 00:01:08,249 --> 00:01:04,570 up lots and lots of videos on that 17 00:01:09,779 --> 00:01:08,259 facebook page worth checking out also 18 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:09,789 don't forget that the Australian 19 00:01:15,810 --> 00:01:13,090 skeptics national convention end of 20 00:01:21,540 --> 00:01:15,820 november is being held in brisbane more 21 00:01:23,639 --> 00:01:21,550 details at ww skeptics com au and check 22 00:01:27,419 --> 00:01:23,649 out the skeptics webpage while you're at 23 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:27,429 it also if you want your event or blog 24 00:01:32,609 --> 00:01:30,610 or podcast or anything you like really 25 00:01:35,339 --> 00:01:32,619 to do a skepticism mentioned on the 26 00:01:37,499 --> 00:01:35,349 skeptic zone drop us a line we'd love to 27 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:37,509 be able to mention you and help you out 28 00:01:44,100 --> 00:01:40,770 those people listening to the show in 29 00:01:47,130 --> 00:01:44,110 Australia I noticed that the ABC TV have 30 00:01:49,109 --> 00:01:47,140 a new show called hungry beast now 31 00:01:51,510 --> 00:01:49,119 apparently there's quite a big skeptical 32 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:51,520 element to this show worth checking out 33 00:01:58,169 --> 00:01:54,250 check your local guides hungry beast on 34 00:02:00,960 --> 00:01:58,179 the ABC with not checking out is that 35 00:02:03,059 --> 00:02:00,970 dreadful show sensing murder which is 36 00:02:05,669 --> 00:02:03,069 infesting new zealand television at the 37 00:02:08,070 --> 00:02:05,679 moment those people listening in new 38 00:02:10,050 --> 00:02:08,080 zealand we managed to get rid of this 39 00:02:12,300 --> 00:02:10,060 dreadful show out of australia I'm sorry 40 00:02:13,710 --> 00:02:12,310 it migrated its way to our friends in 41 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:13,720 New Zealand and it's plaguing your 42 00:02:18,300 --> 00:02:15,970 country if you want to do something 43 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:18,310 about this nonsense on your TV which is 44 00:02:23,430 --> 00:02:21,370 basically so-called psychics trying to 45 00:02:26,820 --> 00:02:23,440 solve murders and the worst possible 46 00:02:28,319 --> 00:02:26,830 taste right to the TV station involved 47 00:02:31,679 --> 00:02:28,329 and let them know you're unhappy about 48 00:02:33,690 --> 00:02:31,689 this also ask them how many murders have 49 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:33,700 been sold with sensing murder 50 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:35,410 New Zealand in Australia and any other 51 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:38,050 country it's been tried out the figure 52 00:02:42,990 --> 00:02:40,330 is very easy to remember and it rhymes 53 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:43,000 with zero sensing murder big thumbs down 54 00:02:48,059 --> 00:02:46,090 oh well enough about that let's get on 55 00:02:58,770 --> 00:02:48,069 to this week's episode of the skipped 56 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:02,140 now it's time for dr. Rachel reports 57 00:03:10,180 --> 00:03:07,370 with dr. Rachel Dunlop hello everyone 58 00:03:12,490 --> 00:03:10,190 and welcome to dr. Reggie reports this 59 00:03:14,650 --> 00:03:12,500 week I continued some of my reports from 60 00:03:16,990 --> 00:03:14,660 New York City and this time I speak to a 61 00:03:20,050 --> 00:03:17,000 couple of people at the monthly meeting 62 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:20,060 of the Jolly 13 club this club is 63 00:03:24,790 --> 00:03:22,730 organized by danny kaye and the Jolly 13 64 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:24,800 is a revival of a club dating back to 65 00:03:28,810 --> 00:03:27,290 the 19th century in New York which was 66 00:03:30,420 --> 00:03:28,820 established by a famous New York 67 00:03:34,060 --> 00:03:30,430 socialite to tempt the fate of 68 00:03:36,010 --> 00:03:34,070 superstitions Danny's club still observe 69 00:03:38,260 --> 00:03:36,020 some of the practices of the original 70 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:38,270 club by breaking superstitions at 71 00:03:43,270 --> 00:03:40,250 various bars and restaurants around New 72 00:03:46,540 --> 00:03:43,280 York City and he does it on the 13th day 73 00:03:48,820 --> 00:03:46,550 of every month here I talked to Dani on 74 00:03:50,980 --> 00:03:48,830 a sunday afternoon on the thirteenth of 75 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:50,990 September sitting outside on the streets 76 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:53,930 of midtown New York City and I'm still 77 00:03:58,810 --> 00:03:56,810 here at the bureau bar in New York City 78 00:04:01,000 --> 00:03:58,820 on the corner of 50 3rd and 2nd Avenue 79 00:04:03,550 --> 00:04:01,010 and I'm here with Danny Kaye hello hi 80 00:04:04,900 --> 00:04:03,560 Danny hi to everybody in Australia can 81 00:04:07,330 --> 00:04:04,910 you explain to Alice's what we're doing 82 00:04:10,810 --> 00:04:07,340 here so once a month we get together on 83 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:10,820 the 13th and we have a very skeptical 84 00:04:15,220 --> 00:04:12,650 dinner where we break superstitions so 85 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:15,230 we spill salt have try to get black cats 86 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:17,090 and although most places don't allow 87 00:04:22,780 --> 00:04:20,330 cats but actually can I just say that 88 00:04:24,250 --> 00:04:22,790 before just just in while the back- do 89 00:04:24,840 --> 00:04:24,260 is there's a parrot down there can you 90 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:24,850 see 91 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:28,090 by this huge parrot but we're sitting 92 00:04:33,870 --> 00:04:31,090 outside of Bureau bar and there's a lady 93 00:04:36,780 --> 00:04:33,880 with a dog and she's got to join well 94 00:04:38,730 --> 00:04:36,790 this is New York so apparent it's a 95 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:38,740 fairly normal pet to have is that 96 00:04:43,110 --> 00:04:41,050 usually people have iguanas you have 97 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:43,120 people walking around with gila monsters 98 00:04:48,300 --> 00:04:45,130 I mean it's a chaos at monsters gila 99 00:04:50,100 --> 00:04:48,310 monsters the Dragons the Gila dragons 100 00:04:51,750 --> 00:04:50,110 here right I thought I haven't seen 101 00:04:53,730 --> 00:04:51,760 those yet but I'm sure I'm sure they're 102 00:04:55,260 --> 00:04:53,740 around so you don't have a cat but I 103 00:04:56,670 --> 00:04:55,270 noticed you have been a crow can you 104 00:04:58,800 --> 00:04:56,680 explain to our losses about the crow 105 00:05:02,400 --> 00:04:58,810 there's a lot of superstitions that are 106 00:05:04,110 --> 00:05:02,410 based around crows people say that if 107 00:05:06,210 --> 00:05:04,120 you see one crow flying from the left 108 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:06,220 side it's bad luck if you see two flying 109 00:05:10,110 --> 00:05:07,930 from the right side somehow they cancel 110 00:05:11,790 --> 00:05:10,120 each other out and it's good luck so we 111 00:05:15,090 --> 00:05:11,800 figured to have a very unlucky mascot 112 00:05:17,280 --> 00:05:15,100 for our club but this this club is not 113 00:05:19,410 --> 00:05:17,290 actually the original thing we had there 114 00:05:23,340 --> 00:05:19,420 was another one that was hosted in new 115 00:05:26,910 --> 00:05:23,350 york about in 1880s and that was run by 116 00:05:29,280 --> 00:05:26,920 dr. i'm sorry not dr. he was a Sir 117 00:05:30,990 --> 00:05:29,290 William Fowler he was a general very 118 00:05:33,210 --> 00:05:31,000 lesser general and politician and he 119 00:05:34,530 --> 00:05:33,220 actually hosted it at his house and it 120 00:05:36,150 --> 00:05:34,540 was the very first social club in New 121 00:05:38,700 --> 00:05:36,160 York to host women to her so the host 122 00:05:41,100 --> 00:05:38,710 ladies nights and invites the Pioneer 123 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:41,110 section and you were saying that he did 124 00:05:43,890 --> 00:05:42,370 that deliberately because he thought 125 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:43,900 women had a lot more superstitions 126 00:05:48,690 --> 00:05:46,570 several according to him he thought that 127 00:05:50,490 --> 00:05:48,700 women and men were both superstitious 128 00:05:52,470 --> 00:05:50,500 and there was no reason why to have a 129 00:05:54,840 --> 00:05:52,480 society that's divided in anything 130 00:05:56,670 --> 00:05:54,850 including irrationality right so I 131 00:05:58,620 --> 00:05:56,680 thought that was a very good good thing 132 00:06:01,020 --> 00:05:58,630 so what sort of things to Pedro and his 133 00:06:04,380 --> 00:06:01,030 club similar to what you doing oil salt 134 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:04,390 and well he had a little more resources 135 00:06:09,450 --> 00:06:06,370 than we do he had actually a very large 136 00:06:11,220 --> 00:06:09,460 house in the city and when people 137 00:06:13,830 --> 00:06:11,230 wouldn't come over first of all he had 138 00:06:15,420 --> 00:06:13,840 one rule you only come at roots of 13 139 00:06:17,910 --> 00:06:15,430 you always sit down at a table at their 140 00:06:19,230 --> 00:06:17,920 team we are a little more laxed to that 141 00:06:20,790 --> 00:06:19,240 kind of thing 142 00:06:23,879 --> 00:06:20,800 but he had people walk underneath 143 00:06:26,969 --> 00:06:23,889 ladders he had a big side in front of 144 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:26,979 his house as a which stated morituri te 145 00:06:30,809 --> 00:06:28,810 salutamus which means that those that 146 00:06:34,050 --> 00:06:30,819 are about to die salute you and that was 147 00:06:36,210 --> 00:06:34,060 also tempting death and for women that 148 00:06:38,159 --> 00:06:36,220 came he actually gave him all a present 149 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:38,169 which was a little glass coffin and 150 00:06:43,290 --> 00:06:40,930 inside of it was a tiny skull head with 151 00:06:44,730 --> 00:06:43,300 perfume in it also if the girls would be 152 00:06:48,420 --> 00:06:44,740 willing to open the coffin did have a 153 00:06:50,100 --> 00:06:48,430 present so we aren't quite there yet but 154 00:06:51,450 --> 00:06:50,110 we're working on it and today we 155 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:51,460 actually had people sell ourselves and 156 00:06:56,309 --> 00:06:53,650 you sold your side did I sold my soul 157 00:06:58,200 --> 00:06:56,319 yes I sold my soul to the crow yes did 158 00:07:00,689 --> 00:06:58,210 your heart the unlucky Crow era unlike 159 00:07:02,850 --> 00:07:00,699 the project inside the the restaurant 160 00:07:05,309 --> 00:07:02,860 there is Gerard he's a stuffed chrome is 161 00:07:06,809 --> 00:07:05,319 it a real pro no it's a it's plastic Wow 162 00:07:09,570 --> 00:07:06,819 buddy's girlfriend as I gave him a 163 00:07:11,490 --> 00:07:09,580 patent and yes my father's are real he's 164 00:07:13,529 --> 00:07:11,500 sitting on a nest or something isn't he 165 00:07:17,370 --> 00:07:13,539 yes which actually um Ellen made that 166 00:07:20,610 --> 00:07:17,380 one oh yeah yeah it's basically spackled 167 00:07:23,070 --> 00:07:20,620 are I think likens I try likens that 168 00:07:26,189 --> 00:07:23,080 he's kind of sitting there looking all 169 00:07:28,020 --> 00:07:26,199 unlucky and mischievous yes and so we we 170 00:07:29,969 --> 00:07:28,030 signed us all over to him can you tell 171 00:07:31,620 --> 00:07:29,979 Alyssa's about that well actually 172 00:07:34,980 --> 00:07:31,630 honestly it was a way to get people to 173 00:07:37,500 --> 00:07:34,990 give me their email 174 00:07:39,420 --> 00:07:37,510 so you can spam us with yes I can spam 175 00:07:43,290 --> 00:07:39,430 you with future events of the jelly 13 176 00:07:45,570 --> 00:07:43,300 and it's basically people have very 177 00:07:47,250 --> 00:07:45,580 ingrained suppositions about particular 178 00:07:49,980 --> 00:07:47,260 about their own conscious about their 179 00:07:51,420 --> 00:07:49,990 own soul even people that don't believe 180 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:51,430 in God say well yes but I wouldn't want 181 00:07:55,140 --> 00:07:53,050 to part with my immortal so because 182 00:07:58,080 --> 00:07:55,150 where else would I be and personally I 183 00:08:01,230 --> 00:07:58,090 think that's kind of silly I mean a life 184 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:01,240 is enough and great as it is so I don't 185 00:08:05,970 --> 00:08:03,610 think we need to rely on any 186 00:08:10,530 --> 00:08:05,980 superstitions or anything that's out of 187 00:08:11,850 --> 00:08:10,540 the ordinary to still be special just 188 00:08:13,260 --> 00:08:11,860 because we're here and we know we're 189 00:08:15,570 --> 00:08:13,270 here we're special on that so I figured 190 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:15,580 actually one person didn't sign a the 191 00:08:19,860 --> 00:08:17,410 contract that he was very Napa for doing 192 00:08:22,410 --> 00:08:19,870 that really yes see what it has his soul 193 00:08:24,090 --> 00:08:22,420 of it to jarrod the door see you just do 194 00:08:25,830 --> 00:08:24,100 it I asked him for his email on the 195 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:25,840 other side but he said to give him any 196 00:08:30,780 --> 00:08:28,570 other paper but that so he just refused 197 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:30,790 to do that so it just shows how much 198 00:08:35,580 --> 00:08:33,970 people are uncomfortable about a lot of 199 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:35,590 the superstitions that are fairly 200 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:38,290 rational but are mandated by most of 201 00:08:41,540 --> 00:08:39,450 society 202 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:41,550 so I just think that's very amusing yeah 203 00:08:45,710 --> 00:08:43,890 so you're also involved in the skeptics 204 00:08:47,060 --> 00:08:45,720 in New York how you or you would 205 00:08:49,670 --> 00:08:47,070 consider yourself a skeptic I am 206 00:08:51,050 --> 00:08:49,680 definitely skeptic I come up to come out 207 00:08:52,340 --> 00:08:51,060 to drinking skeptically every month I'm 208 00:08:54,680 --> 00:08:52,350 embarrassed to say that I did not pay my 209 00:08:56,660 --> 00:08:54,690 dues yet so I'm not technically a member 210 00:08:59,270 --> 00:08:56,670 of things but that will be remedy today 211 00:09:03,260 --> 00:08:59,280 I will go online and i will do the 212 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:03,270 whatever the installment but it's I mean 213 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:04,530 we have a very good community in New 214 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:06,330 York we have a number of great groups we 215 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:08,250 have new york city skeptics we have a 216 00:09:12,230 --> 00:09:10,050 center for inquiry which is run by 217 00:09:14,630 --> 00:09:12,240 michael the door who comes out quite 218 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:14,640 often we have people come out about a 219 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:17,730 place like george from who was there at 220 00:09:21,530 --> 00:09:19,650 the last meet up man if you if you do 221 00:09:24,470 --> 00:09:21,540 look at the fox story you'll see 222 00:09:26,330 --> 00:09:24,480 George's head kind of in the shot at all 223 00:09:29,150 --> 00:09:26,340 time to Treasury just telling me before 224 00:09:31,370 --> 00:09:29,160 we started this thing Fox News did a 225 00:09:33,680 --> 00:09:31,380 story on the joy 13 yes what happened 226 00:09:35,450 --> 00:09:33,690 there so I'm friends with David 227 00:09:37,550 --> 00:09:35,460 Silverman who's the vice president of 228 00:09:40,190 --> 00:09:37,560 American Atheists and if you ever see 229 00:09:42,950 --> 00:09:40,200 that Adam with an A in the middle of it 230 00:09:46,310 --> 00:09:42,960 that's their logo their corporate logo 231 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:46,320 and they the Fox News contacted him 232 00:09:53,450 --> 00:09:50,450 about the social aspects of atheism and 233 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:53,460 she told them that doctors my friend who 234 00:09:57,020 --> 00:09:55,530 hosts a group and technically we're not 235 00:09:58,790 --> 00:09:57,030 strictly atheists were not an atheist 236 00:10:00,290 --> 00:09:58,800 good we're more of a skeptic group but 237 00:10:02,300 --> 00:10:00,300 majority of the people that come out are 238 00:10:05,030 --> 00:10:02,310 atheists some are not but we're not 239 00:10:08,090 --> 00:10:05,040 really we're not really centered on that 240 00:10:11,270 --> 00:10:08,100 aspect of it but he mentioned us and 241 00:10:13,070 --> 00:10:11,280 they came out they kind of and I came 242 00:10:15,560 --> 00:10:13,080 out too amazing to just make a bunch of 243 00:10:18,500 --> 00:10:15,570 meeting with a camera crew chemical one 244 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:18,510 camera and they filmed us hanging around 245 00:10:22,490 --> 00:10:21,090 talking took some interviews took my 246 00:10:25,970 --> 00:10:22,500 interview to Michael's interview I 247 00:10:29,450 --> 00:10:25,980 didn't use a single thing I said not a 248 00:10:30,750 --> 00:10:29,460 word did interview him however and did 249 00:10:32,490 --> 00:10:30,760 use 250 00:10:35,310 --> 00:10:32,500 the phrases that he said and it was 251 00:10:38,430 --> 00:10:35,320 fairly good they did a two minute skin 252 00:10:40,170 --> 00:10:38,440 and the first minute and 30 seconds were 253 00:10:41,910 --> 00:10:40,180 honestly not that bad although they did 254 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:41,920 start the whole thing with these people 255 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:43,330 get together but they're not a regular 256 00:10:49,110 --> 00:10:45,490 group they're atheists and agnostics 257 00:10:51,500 --> 00:10:49,120 which I didn't think was necessary but 258 00:10:54,210 --> 00:10:51,510 yeah probably not relevant to the jelly 259 00:10:55,980 --> 00:10:54,220 not one bit but yeah you know that it is 260 00:10:59,880 --> 00:10:55,990 fox news so we take what we can get yeah 261 00:11:01,050 --> 00:10:59,890 yeah and they kind of when they were 262 00:11:02,790 --> 00:11:01,060 interviewing me that kind of asked me 263 00:11:05,570 --> 00:11:02,800 some questions like how often do you 264 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:05,580 guys get together bash religion and I 265 00:11:11,370 --> 00:11:09,370 said we really don't do that well yes we 266 00:11:13,470 --> 00:11:11,380 kill babies that sacrifice skins yeah I 267 00:11:15,390 --> 00:11:13,480 didn't say the altar inside though oh no 268 00:11:17,940 --> 00:11:15,400 you don't normally come to this not you 269 00:11:20,070 --> 00:11:17,950 we ran out of babies today so I'm very 270 00:11:22,170 --> 00:11:20,080 sorry we can no you couldn't get a baby 271 00:11:24,780 --> 00:11:22,180 for me I mean come on it's time in years 272 00:11:27,930 --> 00:11:24,790 here you know but yeah they did a fairly 273 00:11:31,170 --> 00:11:27,940 decent thing up until 30 seconds before 274 00:11:32,940 --> 00:11:31,180 the end where they got some nutjob guy 275 00:11:33,900 --> 00:11:32,950 who claimed he's an atheist that thinks 276 00:11:36,660 --> 00:11:33,910 religion is the best thing that can 277 00:11:39,060 --> 00:11:36,670 happen to the world which I happen to 278 00:11:41,370 --> 00:11:39,070 disagree with I think that atheists 279 00:11:43,830 --> 00:11:41,380 could be plenty happy without it um I 280 00:11:45,540 --> 00:11:43,840 don't think that it well it does serve a 281 00:11:48,210 --> 00:11:45,550 purpose in society but only for people 282 00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:48,220 that need it to serve a purpose for so 283 00:11:51,420 --> 00:11:49,690 the story seems like it was more about 284 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:51,430 the Atheist community rather than your 285 00:11:56,010 --> 00:11:54,970 club exactly okay yes it was pretty much 286 00:11:59,520 --> 00:11:56,020 complete well they were they were 287 00:12:01,890 --> 00:11:59,530 looking for of the atheism aspect well 288 00:12:04,310 --> 00:12:01,900 the social aspects of atheism right so I 289 00:12:06,540 --> 00:12:04,320 could see how they'd say that this is 290 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:06,550 sort of that it's a part of it but 291 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:08,890 there's no such thing as a social aspect 292 00:12:13,170 --> 00:12:11,050 of atheism atheism just states what you 293 00:12:15,030 --> 00:12:13,180 don't believe it yeah yeah just because 294 00:12:17,100 --> 00:12:15,040 people get together and hang out and 295 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:17,110 talk and it's not in a church doesn't 296 00:12:21,110 --> 00:12:19,810 mean that it's you know I I fail to see 297 00:12:22,460 --> 00:12:21,120 their point yeah 298 00:12:24,260 --> 00:12:22,470 kind of a bizarre concept isn't it 299 00:12:26,180 --> 00:12:24,270 because it's irrelevant like exactly 300 00:12:27,620 --> 00:12:26,190 we're here to drink and have some fun 301 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:27,630 and you know there's just a bit of an 302 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:29,370 underlying theme which is superstitions 303 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:32,370 and oh yeah and I mean if you're if a 304 00:12:36,980 --> 00:12:34,850 person is superstitious we're not gonna 305 00:12:38,780 --> 00:12:36,990 ostracize them we're not going to start 306 00:12:40,130 --> 00:12:38,790 yelling and then we might ask them why 307 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:40,140 do you believe the thing that you 308 00:12:45,140 --> 00:12:41,730 believe in which is not a very 309 00:12:46,670 --> 00:12:45,150 unreasonable question but we won't probe 310 00:12:48,950 --> 00:12:46,680 or we try not to make anybody 311 00:12:51,530 --> 00:12:48,960 uncomfortable we want everybody that can 312 00:12:52,850 --> 00:12:51,540 to join I mean it's a lot of fun so do 313 00:12:55,430 --> 00:12:52,860 you have you had any people come join 314 00:12:57,470 --> 00:12:55,440 who were superstitious or well it's the 315 00:12:59,480 --> 00:12:57,480 guy today and I wouldn't sign the today 316 00:13:00,440 --> 00:12:59,490 gentlemen world soul yep and we had a 317 00:13:02,269 --> 00:13:00,450 couple of months ago we had somebody 318 00:13:05,180 --> 00:13:02,279 that into state court on religious 319 00:13:08,450 --> 00:13:05,190 grounds but I don't know that with lump 320 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:08,460 as superstition per se but I mean again 321 00:13:14,269 --> 00:13:11,130 some people do do put religion and 322 00:13:16,070 --> 00:13:14,279 supposition one bag and the person that 323 00:13:18,670 --> 00:13:16,080 actually started welling father was one 324 00:13:20,990 --> 00:13:18,680 of those people right he actually had a 325 00:13:22,370 --> 00:13:21,000 Robert greeting ingersoll was actually 326 00:13:25,060 --> 00:13:22,380 one of the keynote speakers at one of 327 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:25,070 the dinners so if anybody has a 328 00:13:29,630 --> 00:13:27,450 curiosity about that I strongly 329 00:13:31,940 --> 00:13:29,640 recommend you check out his speech is a 330 00:13:33,500 --> 00:13:31,950 phenomenal phenomenal speaker what was 331 00:13:35,390 --> 00:13:33,510 he talking about at the dinner he was 332 00:13:37,130 --> 00:13:35,400 talking about superstitions about 333 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:37,140 religion as a superstition about 334 00:13:42,610 --> 00:13:40,410 irrationality about the base of 335 00:13:46,250 --> 00:13:42,620 irrational beliefs about why they're 336 00:13:48,260 --> 00:13:46,260 damaging in society so it's a nice I 337 00:13:50,510 --> 00:13:48,270 think it's about two or three pages 338 00:13:52,130 --> 00:13:50,520 worth of a very good speech which I 339 00:13:53,180 --> 00:13:52,140 strongly recommend yeah I mean it's 340 00:13:54,620 --> 00:13:53,190 rubber green Ingersoll you can't go 341 00:13:56,449 --> 00:13:54,630 wrong so what's his name Robert Robert 342 00:13:57,949 --> 00:13:56,459 Greene ingersoll Robert Greene inga soul 343 00:13:59,900 --> 00:13:57,959 yes the people google him they'll be 344 00:14:03,320 --> 00:13:59,910 able to find that oh yeah he's a he's a 345 00:14:06,140 --> 00:14:03,330 big name he was one of the first truly 346 00:14:08,090 --> 00:14:06,150 outspoken atheists in America okay yeah 347 00:14:10,699 --> 00:14:08,100 he was I believe he lived in again in 348 00:14:13,670 --> 00:14:10,709 turn of the century and he has a very 349 00:14:16,579 --> 00:14:13,680 good lecture series on the religion and 350 00:14:18,110 --> 00:14:16,589 the evils of religion and I would 351 00:14:19,810 --> 00:14:18,120 personally recommend it to somebody that 352 00:14:20,980 --> 00:14:19,820 is religious 353 00:14:22,210 --> 00:14:20,990 if you have a friend that's religious 354 00:14:24,910 --> 00:14:22,220 and you want to introduce them to a DS 355 00:14:28,030 --> 00:14:24,920 and don't do it with that ok i will lose 356 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:28,040 that friend ok he's scathingly critical 357 00:14:33,430 --> 00:14:31,010 right so I part of the reason why you he 358 00:14:35,860 --> 00:14:33,440 said this cover was just to revive what 359 00:14:37,420 --> 00:14:35,870 the original one did right yes and a way 360 00:14:38,770 --> 00:14:37,430 to I mean there's a lot of skeptics were 361 00:14:40,630 --> 00:14:38,780 found around New York like I said and 362 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:40,640 there's people that there's the American 363 00:14:44,110 --> 00:14:42,410 an atheist group meetup group there's 364 00:14:45,970 --> 00:14:44,120 the New York City skeptics which is 365 00:14:48,790 --> 00:14:45,980 great but they're well more like either 366 00:14:51,010 --> 00:14:48,800 a bar night or a very topic oriented 367 00:14:53,650 --> 00:14:51,020 like they will discuss either strictly a 368 00:14:56,790 --> 00:14:53,660 woowoo in medicine or shrigley will mood 369 00:14:59,170 --> 00:14:56,800 something else and we're kind of the 370 00:15:00,820 --> 00:14:59,180 superstition is an underlying theme but 371 00:15:03,820 --> 00:15:00,830 if you think about it what's not a 372 00:15:05,530 --> 00:15:03,830 superstition that that's irrational yeah 373 00:15:09,100 --> 00:15:05,540 homeopathy has as much of a superstition 374 00:15:10,570 --> 00:15:09,110 as acupuncture as Reiki as you know 375 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:10,580 believing that a black cat could give 376 00:15:13,750 --> 00:15:11,930 you a farm by crossing the street in 377 00:15:16,420 --> 00:15:13,760 front of ya it's just a different flavor 378 00:15:18,550 --> 00:15:16,430 to it yeah so yeah it's a chase 379 00:15:20,380 --> 00:15:18,560 telephone you know I don't see any black 380 00:15:22,950 --> 00:15:20,390 cats here today Danny so I guess maybe 381 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:22,960 you've scared them away have you oh 382 00:15:28,270 --> 00:15:26,210 guess they're so cute the heck analysis 383 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:28,280 find out more about the Jolly 13 in New 384 00:15:33,460 --> 00:15:30,770 York City well right now we are on 385 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:33,470 facebook as the jelly 13 of new york and 386 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:35,450 central New Jersey I have a website 387 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:38,690 which I update fair early it's bad omens 388 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:41,450 org and you can find out more about what 389 00:15:45,850 --> 00:15:43,970 I do on there and also Center for 390 00:15:47,590 --> 00:15:45,860 inquiry has a great page on us and the 391 00:15:49,750 --> 00:15:47,600 New York City skeptics ok and how can 392 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:49,760 people find you on twitter and on 393 00:15:54,550 --> 00:15:52,490 twitter i am if you search for the hash 394 00:15:57,700 --> 00:15:54,560 bad omens a diamond 395 00:15:58,870 --> 00:15:57,710 for my name Daniel cave oh well I'm not 396 00:16:01,840 --> 00:15:58,880 going to say my last thing cuz 14 397 00:16:03,340 --> 00:16:01,850 letters I adamson European apparently 398 00:16:05,350 --> 00:16:03,350 the parrot is getting very frustrated at 399 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:05,360 something yeah I don't know if Alison's 400 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:06,770 can hear that but the power was just 401 00:16:11,410 --> 00:16:09,170 yelling at something thanks for joining 402 00:16:14,380 --> 00:16:11,420 us today daddy thank you very much as a 403 00:16:16,420 --> 00:16:14,390 better as Danny said you can find out 404 00:16:18,700 --> 00:16:16,430 more about the Jolly 13 club by going to 405 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:18,710 their Facebook page which was jolly 13 406 00:16:23,410 --> 00:16:21,650 of new york and new jersey or check out 407 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:23,420 the new york city skeptics or the center 408 00:16:27,310 --> 00:16:25,730 for inquiry for more information this 409 00:16:29,530 --> 00:16:27,320 was only the second interview danny has 410 00:16:31,180 --> 00:16:29,540 ever done after the Fox interview so I 411 00:16:34,450 --> 00:16:31,190 hope he is happier with the outcome of 412 00:16:36,660 --> 00:16:34,460 this one I was also very lucky to meet 413 00:16:39,460 --> 00:16:36,670 Michael rush at the Jolly 13 brunch 414 00:16:42,310 --> 00:16:39,470 Michael is one of the cofounders of stop 415 00:16:44,890 --> 00:16:42,320 genicom along with our own Kylie Sturgis 416 00:16:46,540 --> 00:16:44,900 I took the opportunity to have a chat 417 00:16:48,700 --> 00:16:46,550 with Michael about why he set up the 418 00:16:53,620 --> 00:16:48,710 website and what sort of feedback he has 419 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:53,630 been getting now you are set up stop 420 00:16:58,630 --> 00:16:55,850 Jenny calm with Carly Sturgis is that 421 00:17:00,790 --> 00:16:58,640 right yes so can you tell me a little 422 00:17:03,300 --> 00:17:00,800 bit about your website its stop Jenny 423 00:17:07,090 --> 00:17:03,310 calm and can you tell me what it's about 424 00:17:09,579 --> 00:17:07,100 okay sure yeah it's devoted to basically 425 00:17:11,939 --> 00:17:09,589 trying to expose the kind of get to the 426 00:17:14,980 --> 00:17:11,949 bottom of the myths and misconceptions 427 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:14,990 being perpetuated in the popular media 428 00:17:21,850 --> 00:17:19,010 about vaccines and autism specifically 429 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:21,860 focused on the claims of Jenny McCarthy 430 00:17:26,829 --> 00:17:24,650 so Jenny McCarthy most of Alice's would 431 00:17:29,050 --> 00:17:26,839 know but can you tell listens a little 432 00:17:31,169 --> 00:17:29,060 bit about her for those of those of them 433 00:17:34,540 --> 00:17:31,179 who haven't heard of Jenny okay sure 434 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:34,550 Jamie McCarthy are her basically she's 435 00:17:40,060 --> 00:17:36,530 an entertainer she started off as a 436 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:40,070 model a Playboy bunny and add she went 437 00:17:47,650 --> 00:17:44,810 into but she was a game show host on MTV 438 00:17:50,649 --> 00:17:47,660 and basically she was a model and 439 00:17:54,820 --> 00:17:50,659 actress and all of a sudden 440 00:17:58,749 --> 00:17:54,830 when she her kid was allegedly diagnosed 441 00:18:02,009 --> 00:17:58,759 as autistic first she got into a 442 00:18:05,769 --> 00:18:02,019 movement called the the indigo mom 443 00:18:07,570 --> 00:18:05,779 movement which has all sorts of wacky 444 00:18:10,810 --> 00:18:07,580 beliefs but then she kind of moved on 445 00:18:12,839 --> 00:18:10,820 from that and we're sort of she sort of 446 00:18:15,519 --> 00:18:12,849 become the spokesperson of the 447 00:18:17,379 --> 00:18:15,529 anti-vaccination movement yeah can we 448 00:18:19,479 --> 00:18:17,389 talk about the Indigo mum business for a 449 00:18:22,749 --> 00:18:19,489 moment she wrote a book didn't she early 450 00:18:24,519 --> 00:18:22,759 on about evan is her son being an indigo 451 00:18:27,609 --> 00:18:24,529 child can you tell us a little bit about 452 00:18:30,060 --> 00:18:27,619 what an indigo child is sure i'm not an 453 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:30,070 expert on it but from my understanding 454 00:18:35,469 --> 00:18:32,690 of it is and i haven't read the book by 455 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:35,479 reading an essay she vote which is still 456 00:18:40,299 --> 00:18:37,970 available on the internet where she 457 00:18:42,159 --> 00:18:40,309 basically describes it and if you look 458 00:18:44,049 --> 00:18:42,169 it up on like wikipedia there's a lot of 459 00:18:47,409 --> 00:18:44,059 information about it but it seems like 460 00:18:49,409 --> 00:18:47,419 there was a belief for a time that a lot 461 00:18:54,879 --> 00:18:49,419 of kids that I guess had some autistic 462 00:18:59,259 --> 00:18:54,889 symptoms were seen as being I guess some 463 00:19:02,080 --> 00:18:59,269 higher-level order of humanity and that 464 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:02,090 that was the explanation for why they 465 00:19:08,589 --> 00:19:05,690 didn't communicate easily with us and I 466 00:19:10,930 --> 00:19:08,599 guess it's a very easy belief for people 467 00:19:13,839 --> 00:19:10,940 to people want to believe something's 468 00:19:15,070 --> 00:19:13,849 their kids special as opposed to that 469 00:19:18,219 --> 00:19:15,080 there's some might be something 470 00:19:19,869 --> 00:19:18,229 neurological along with them now can you 471 00:19:21,219 --> 00:19:19,879 tell us a bit about your website Michael 472 00:19:24,969 --> 00:19:21,229 what sort of things have you got on stop 473 00:19:29,049 --> 00:19:24,979 journey com okay yeah the right now I I 474 00:19:32,350 --> 00:19:29,059 don't Kylie's added some reviews of some 475 00:19:35,770 --> 00:19:32,360 of the Gennie's books that she's read 476 00:19:39,100 --> 00:19:35,780 we have links to a bunch of great 477 00:19:42,580 --> 00:19:39,110 resources about vaccines in autism as 478 00:19:45,190 --> 00:19:42,590 well as some generic information about 479 00:19:47,770 --> 00:19:45,200 some of the most basic claims that Jenny 480 00:19:49,210 --> 00:19:47,780 McCarthy has been making and can you 481 00:19:52,150 --> 00:19:49,220 tell us some of those claims that she's 482 00:19:55,930 --> 00:19:52,160 made sure she's talked a lot about the 483 00:19:59,940 --> 00:19:55,940 ingredients of vaccines the so-called 484 00:20:02,700 --> 00:19:59,950 toxins such as she's going on about 485 00:20:05,860 --> 00:20:02,710 antifreeze which isn't in vaccines 486 00:20:08,770 --> 00:20:05,870 formaldehyde which is in vaccines but to 487 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:08,780 no greater degree than we are exposed to 488 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:11,090 regularly someone wrote something about 489 00:20:15,100 --> 00:20:12,770 the formaldehyde and said that there's 490 00:20:17,740 --> 00:20:15,110 much more in a banana that you would eat 491 00:20:19,330 --> 00:20:17,750 than there is in vaccines well it 492 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:19,340 wouldn't surprise me I'm sure like Steve 493 00:20:23,650 --> 00:20:21,650 Novello David Gorski would know better 494 00:20:25,810 --> 00:20:23,660 than I would but I mean football I 495 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:25,820 understand is we regularly have 496 00:20:32,470 --> 00:20:29,210 formaldehyde the exposure and that the 497 00:20:34,539 --> 00:20:32,480 amount in vaccines is so my new yeah and 498 00:20:36,340 --> 00:20:34,549 she also claims that there's mercury in 499 00:20:38,710 --> 00:20:36,350 vaccines doesn't she and that's not true 500 00:20:40,419 --> 00:20:38,720 for many childhood vaccines right right 501 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:40,429 this is a huge one for the 502 00:20:44,980 --> 00:20:42,890 anti-vaccination movement that claim 503 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:44,990 that's thimerosal which is a mercury 504 00:20:51,940 --> 00:20:49,490 base the preservative is in vaccines and 505 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:51,950 now at least in the United States i'm 506 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:53,450 not sure why it where it is with 507 00:20:58,090 --> 00:20:55,730 australia but in the united states it's 508 00:21:01,419 --> 00:20:58,100 only it only remains in some flu 509 00:21:04,350 --> 00:21:01,429 vaccinations and it's actually a form of 510 00:21:08,620 --> 00:21:04,360 mercury called ethyl mercury which is um 511 00:21:10,690 --> 00:21:08,630 it doesn't bioaccumulate and it doesn't 512 00:21:13,659 --> 00:21:10,700 say in the system the way that methyl 513 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:13,669 mercury does it's a far safer form and 514 00:21:18,580 --> 00:21:16,970 the dosage again is so minut that it 515 00:21:20,740 --> 00:21:18,590 would take an extraordinarily large 516 00:21:22,810 --> 00:21:20,750 dosage to cause any kind of neurological 517 00:21:24,460 --> 00:21:22,820 damage yeah I mean in most childhood 518 00:21:27,940 --> 00:21:24,470 vaccines thimerosal were just removed 519 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:27,950 from them in the year 2000 in some cases 520 00:21:31,030 --> 00:21:29,330 it's still used in the manufacturing 521 00:21:33,340 --> 00:21:31,040 process but it's removed so there might 522 00:21:35,919 --> 00:21:33,350 be trace trace amounts but the thing 523 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:35,929 that the anti-vaxxers try to say is that 524 00:21:39,850 --> 00:21:38,330 they infer that it's the as you say the 525 00:21:40,830 --> 00:21:39,860 methyl mercury which is the organic 526 00:21:43,409 --> 00:21:40,840 mercury 527 00:21:46,260 --> 00:21:43,419 is a bad stuff but that is not what is 528 00:21:49,230 --> 00:21:46,270 in the manufacturing process of vaccines 529 00:21:51,019 --> 00:21:49,240 right and what they like to say to the 530 00:21:53,519 --> 00:21:51,029 public is there's mercury in vaccines 531 00:21:55,830 --> 00:21:53,529 mercury we know is bad and that's the 532 00:21:59,430 --> 00:21:55,840 end of a subject and they leave out a 533 00:22:02,070 --> 00:21:59,440 huge wealth of information and you know 534 00:22:03,990 --> 00:22:02,080 mercury can be very it's one of the joke 535 00:22:06,510 --> 00:22:04,000 at methyl mercury and even ethyl mercury 536 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:06,520 they could be very toxic things in high 537 00:22:11,220 --> 00:22:09,850 dosage but these aren't the types of 538 00:22:13,289 --> 00:22:11,230 people who really know what they're 539 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:13,299 talking about and a great example is 540 00:22:20,820 --> 00:22:17,770 that jenny has since McCrae's de boat ox 541 00:22:23,669 --> 00:22:20,830 which is obviously in even more 542 00:22:26,190 --> 00:22:23,679 dangerous toxin than any form of mercury 543 00:22:28,889 --> 00:22:26,200 yeah well it's botulinum toxin right and 544 00:22:31,110 --> 00:22:28,899 that is incredibly toxic right right and 545 00:22:33,570 --> 00:22:31,120 I mean she's still like this isn't even 546 00:22:35,730 --> 00:22:33,580 in older claim this was a claim she made 547 00:22:40,799 --> 00:22:35,740 just a few months ago that she praised 548 00:22:42,630 --> 00:22:40,809 up Botox and this is well into her new 549 00:22:45,060 --> 00:22:42,640 career as spokesperson for the 550 00:22:47,460 --> 00:22:45,070 anti-vaccination movement so are you 551 00:22:48,810 --> 00:22:47,470 saying that she's a her she might be 552 00:22:50,340 --> 00:22:48,820 getting her facts wrong and that she's 553 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:50,350 perhaps a bit of a hypocrite Michael 554 00:22:55,590 --> 00:22:52,570 yeah I think that's it that's what I 555 00:22:57,389 --> 00:22:55,600 would say sure so the the end of your 556 00:22:59,580 --> 00:22:57,399 website is to expose the misinformation 557 00:23:02,730 --> 00:22:59,590 that Jenny is perpetuating is that right 558 00:23:07,380 --> 00:23:02,740 yes I was started off by being really 559 00:23:11,340 --> 00:23:07,390 inspired by a skeptic named Robert 560 00:23:14,639 --> 00:23:11,350 Lancaster we started up stop Sylvia yeah 561 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:14,649 and he was that basically chris isaak 562 00:23:19,889 --> 00:23:17,890 specifically Sylvia Browne and I thought 563 00:23:22,860 --> 00:23:19,899 that was a great idea for the skeptical 564 00:23:26,100 --> 00:23:22,870 movement I want to see more skeptics 565 00:23:30,149 --> 00:23:26,110 take on specific individuals so that if 566 00:23:31,740 --> 00:23:30,159 people Google search those names they 567 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:31,750 could get the criticism white neck 568 00:23:37,650 --> 00:23:34,570 yeah and so since I didn't know much 569 00:23:39,900 --> 00:23:37,660 about to be I couldn't write a website 570 00:23:43,110 --> 00:23:39,910 on my own I went to the James Randi 571 00:23:46,110 --> 00:23:43,120 Educational Foundation forums and said 572 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:46,120 asked people if anybody wanted to help 573 00:23:52,340 --> 00:23:48,250 me out if anybody knew how to fight 574 00:23:55,380 --> 00:23:52,350 website and I got a lot of hits and 575 00:23:57,660 --> 00:23:55,390 first it was somebody who's still 576 00:23:59,670 --> 00:23:57,670 anonymous on our website was mostly 577 00:24:01,950 --> 00:23:59,680 responsible for designing the site and 578 00:24:04,650 --> 00:24:01,960 most of the hard work and then through 579 00:24:08,100 --> 00:24:04,660 heard she cope is she gotten in contact 580 00:24:10,740 --> 00:24:08,110 with Kylie Sturgis and Kylie joined on 581 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:10,750 and her name as well as my own up here 582 00:24:15,330 --> 00:24:13,210 on the site so have you had a good 583 00:24:17,430 --> 00:24:15,340 response to the site is it getting lots 584 00:24:20,340 --> 00:24:17,440 of hits and and also have you had any 585 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:20,350 bad response like from anti-vaxxers yes 586 00:24:25,830 --> 00:24:22,930 certainly we're first went up because i 587 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:25,840 did a heavy campaign the first week to 588 00:24:30,870 --> 00:24:28,570 get the skeptical and scientific 589 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:30,880 bloggers to promote it I contacted 590 00:24:37,140 --> 00:24:33,850 biologist pz myers who's notorious for 591 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:37,150 having a huge readership and he he 592 00:24:43,050 --> 00:24:39,610 promoted the site David skorsky promoted 593 00:24:45,150 --> 00:24:43,060 it on his website Phil Plait and a 594 00:24:48,930 --> 00:24:45,160 low-grade skeptics promoting it so we 595 00:24:52,050 --> 00:24:48,940 got a huge hit perfect and then Tim 596 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:52,060 Farley of what's the harm help to 597 00:24:56,110 --> 00:24:54,610 promote it and so we did get a lot of 598 00:24:59,330 --> 00:24:56,120 critical 599 00:25:02,060 --> 00:24:59,340 comments as well a lot of them accusing 600 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:02,070 us of infringing on Jenny McCarthy's 601 00:25:07,970 --> 00:25:04,290 freedom of speech which I've never quite 602 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:07,980 understood riding right but you're not 603 00:25:11,060 --> 00:25:09,450 trying to shut Jenny McCarthy down 604 00:25:13,370 --> 00:25:11,070 you're just trying to make people aware 605 00:25:15,620 --> 00:25:13,380 that what she says it's not right right 606 00:25:17,900 --> 00:25:15,630 I think anybody has the freedom to say 607 00:25:20,900 --> 00:25:17,910 whatever they want I mean to a degree I 608 00:25:23,540 --> 00:25:20,910 mean an argument could be made of the 609 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:23,550 proverbial shouting fire in a crowded 610 00:25:27,500 --> 00:25:25,890 theater I mean argument can be made but 611 00:25:29,620 --> 00:25:27,510 I mean that's not the goal of the site 612 00:25:31,850 --> 00:25:29,630 people who take that that's politics 613 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:31,860 we're not trying to shut her up we just 614 00:25:36,140 --> 00:25:34,770 want to inform the public yeah well 615 00:25:37,910 --> 00:25:36,150 thanks for talking to us today Michael 616 00:25:39,860 --> 00:25:37,920 and so listeners can go to stop Jenny 617 00:25:42,530 --> 00:25:39,870 calm is that the right yes that's 618 00:25:44,570 --> 00:25:42,540 correct thanks a lot thank you and just 619 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:44,580 finally here's a chat i had with some of 620 00:25:57,980 --> 00:25:45,930 the other people that were there on 621 00:26:07,460 --> 00:25:57,990 sunday the 13th of September jolly three 622 00:26:13,500 --> 00:26:10,650 good now that you're here and you're 623 00:26:15,150 --> 00:26:13,510 wearing a lovely shirt today which has 624 00:26:18,390 --> 00:26:15,160 been designed by a friend Ricky burns 625 00:26:21,750 --> 00:26:18,400 from hell Ricky is an amazingly talented 626 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:21,760 artist and I adore this shirt she made 627 00:26:25,410 --> 00:26:23,050 it over the skeptics guide to the 628 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:25,420 universe and it is one of my all-time 629 00:26:30,270 --> 00:26:27,610 favorite shirts because before we just 630 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:30,280 had our logo on a shirt and now we have 631 00:26:36,900 --> 00:26:34,170 this amazing like 60s beetle s 632 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:36,910 awesomeness and I get complimented on it 633 00:26:45,990 --> 00:26:44,170 everywhere I go could you guys introduce 634 00:26:51,150 --> 00:26:46,000 yourselves and tell us why you're here 635 00:26:54,900 --> 00:26:51,160 where you from I'm Walter Mattingly I'm 636 00:26:57,930 --> 00:26:54,910 from New Jersey and I'm here because I 637 00:27:00,240 --> 00:26:57,940 don't believe in any superstitions I'm 638 00:27:03,770 --> 00:27:00,250 Kirsten I'm married to Walter Walter got 639 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:03,780 me into this and I'm glad you did I'm 640 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:07,690 Michael of soft Airy com I'm here 641 00:27:14,550 --> 00:27:10,690 because uh but I love skeptics said I 642 00:27:16,470 --> 00:27:14,560 love her yeah I had a great time at the 643 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:16,480 meeting of the Jolly 13 in New York City 644 00:27:21,030 --> 00:27:18,850 and thanks Danny for the invitation if 645 00:27:22,770 --> 00:27:21,040 you're in the area i recommend you catch 646 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:22,780 up with them on the thirteenth of every 647 00:27:27,390 --> 00:27:25,450 month for a drink a chat where you two 648 00:27:30,990 --> 00:27:27,400 will be able to sell your soul to Gerard 649 00:27:44,990 --> 00:27:31,000 the unlucky crow and until next time 650 00:27:50,279 --> 00:27:48,029 this is des Rochelle hosted skeptically 651 00:27:52,649 --> 00:27:50,289 speaking check out our website at 652 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:52,659 skeptically speaking calm and listen to 653 00:28:00,299 --> 00:27:56,530 us live on CJ SR 88.5 FM in Edmonton 654 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:00,309 Alberta Canada I now return you to the 655 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:06,490 skeptic zone join us now for drinking 656 00:28:16,799 --> 00:28:13,570 skeptically in the think tank cheers 657 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:16,809 everybody she is the director Jason and 658 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:21,970 she's jammu and welcome to the think 659 00:28:26,250 --> 00:28:23,890 tank it's wonderful to be back at our 660 00:28:28,649 --> 00:28:26,260 regular spot dr. aging pirates at how 661 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:28,659 are you I'm really well and hello to 662 00:28:34,850 --> 00:28:31,450 Joanne I Richard I'm very nice to be 663 00:28:38,159 --> 00:28:34,860 back this isn't it n Diane hi hi Diane 664 00:28:39,630 --> 00:28:38,169 normally we have another room here at 665 00:28:41,310 --> 00:28:39,640 our favorite club but that rooms being 666 00:28:44,250 --> 00:28:41,320 used so sort of come out to the 667 00:28:46,830 --> 00:28:44,260 restaurant so if you hear food sort of 668 00:28:50,010 --> 00:28:46,840 nomming noises in the background then 669 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:50,020 it's Richard Saunders oh no what we've 670 00:28:54,510 --> 00:28:52,330 all eaten we all had a huge Chinese 671 00:28:56,190 --> 00:28:54,520 dinner nom des el silly he ever owned 672 00:28:58,640 --> 00:28:56,200 else actually but it's great to be back 673 00:29:01,799 --> 00:28:58,650 in the think tank the last thing thank 674 00:29:05,130 --> 00:29:01,809 in fact that when out on the show was I 675 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:05,140 from New Zealand it was from Oakland to 676 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:07,210 fix in the pub in Auckland the very 677 00:29:12,419 --> 00:29:09,850 first skeptics in the pub and it was 678 00:29:14,279 --> 00:29:12,429 apparently so so thanks to Kyle Easter 679 00:29:16,740 --> 00:29:14,289 just for doing that one for us but now 680 00:29:19,770 --> 00:29:16,750 we're back at our regular our regular 681 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:19,780 spot so let's kick off dr. aging what do 682 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:21,850 you have for us well I first thing 683 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:24,250 wanted to send out a plug for our good 684 00:29:28,510 --> 00:29:27,250 friend Scott Guevara who is a skeptical 685 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:28,520 blogger from Canada 686 00:29:32,659 --> 00:29:30,570 scott has the website called 687 00:29:35,510 --> 00:29:32,669 science-based pharmacy and he's a 688 00:29:40,700 --> 00:29:35,520 pharmacist and he writes some very good 689 00:29:42,020 --> 00:29:40,710 critical science-based posts about some 690 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:42,030 of the things he comes across in his 691 00:29:45,770 --> 00:29:44,010 profession which we all know is a bit of 692 00:29:49,610 --> 00:29:45,780 a problem in some parts of the world 693 00:29:51,919 --> 00:29:49,620 particularly in Australia Scott has 694 00:29:55,039 --> 00:29:51,929 recently become involved in a new blog 695 00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:55,049 called skeptic NORTHCOM and it's a 696 00:29:59,960 --> 00:29:57,570 pan-canadian skeptical blog it's just a 697 00:30:02,690 --> 00:29:59,970 collection of Canadian bloggers who just 698 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:02,700 got together to sort of do a a bunch of 699 00:30:07,010 --> 00:30:05,490 of posts so he's blowing this part of 700 00:30:09,799 --> 00:30:07,020 that so I urge you to check that out at 701 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:09,809 skeptic NORTHCOM I really like to hear 702 00:30:13,669 --> 00:30:12,090 about skeptics in Canada got a very 703 00:30:16,190 --> 00:30:13,679 soft-spoken canada of course having 704 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:16,200 lived there many years ago and a big 705 00:30:19,850 --> 00:30:17,610 shout out in a big hi to all our 706 00:30:22,220 --> 00:30:19,860 canadian mrs. listeners especially for 707 00:30:23,659 --> 00:30:22,230 the ones in saskatchewan how do we have 708 00:30:27,770 --> 00:30:23,669 some no just cause he used to live there 709 00:30:29,899 --> 00:30:27,780 with you oh okay i also want to give a 710 00:30:32,870 --> 00:30:29,909 big shout out to everyone I met on my 711 00:30:34,850 --> 00:30:32,880 recent trip to the States I went to 712 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:34,860 dragoncon as you know but I also went to 713 00:30:39,890 --> 00:30:38,250 nexus in new york city and i met lots 714 00:30:41,750 --> 00:30:39,900 and lots of people that I know from 715 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:41,760 Twitter and from facebook who had not 716 00:30:46,549 --> 00:30:44,730 actually set eyes upon before so I had 717 00:30:48,529 --> 00:30:46,559 such a great time and I want to thank 718 00:30:50,090 --> 00:30:48,539 everyone for well we could tell you had 719 00:30:52,220 --> 00:30:50,100 a great time from your doctor ricci 720 00:30:54,409 --> 00:30:52,230 reports over the last few weeks yeah I'm 721 00:30:56,630 --> 00:30:54,419 the one from today as well in at the 13 722 00:30:58,549 --> 00:30:56,640 club that we ran tastic yeah big shout 723 00:31:01,159 --> 00:30:58,559 out to Danny Danny Kaye who runs the 724 00:31:03,169 --> 00:31:01,169 Jolly 13 in John 13 yes Cydia it's a 725 00:31:04,279 --> 00:31:03,179 great great club with a parrot in the 726 00:31:07,490 --> 00:31:04,289 background with a parrot in the 727 00:31:08,990 --> 00:31:07,500 background and and an unlucky crow to 728 00:31:12,980 --> 00:31:09,000 which you can surrender your soul would 729 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:12,990 you did I dentist so if I start occur if 730 00:31:18,590 --> 00:31:15,690 I start to fade away or I don't know 731 00:31:21,529 --> 00:31:18,600 what happens when you my dear soul I 732 00:31:35,630 --> 00:31:21,539 don't know apparently nothing oh nice 733 00:31:37,490 --> 00:31:35,640 and just just just finally the team and 734 00:31:39,549 --> 00:31:37,500 I was able before I surrendered myself 735 00:31:43,149 --> 00:31:39,559 which I can't to tell much difference 736 00:31:45,529 --> 00:31:43,159 I'm saying I'm just ate a bit more mail 737 00:31:49,220 --> 00:31:45,539 some of our listeners may have heard 738 00:31:51,710 --> 00:31:49,230 that the some members of the Australian 739 00:31:53,180 --> 00:31:51,720 community filed a report to the 740 00:31:54,889 --> 00:31:53,190 healthcare Complaints Commission about 741 00:31:58,010 --> 00:31:54,899 the Australian vaccination network now 742 00:32:00,560 --> 00:31:58,020 that is currently being investigated by 743 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:00,570 the Commission they decided that the ABN 744 00:32:03,889 --> 00:32:01,890 would be subject to a formal 745 00:32:06,500 --> 00:32:03,899 investigation hmm but in the meantime 746 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:06,510 we've had a bit of a triple c action of 747 00:32:12,260 --> 00:32:08,850 our own recently haven't li Richard yes 748 00:32:14,659 --> 00:32:12,270 a chiropractor from South Australia I 749 00:32:17,060 --> 00:32:14,669 think actually i don't know where i 750 00:32:20,060 --> 00:32:17,070 think these from selves variable has 751 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:20,070 lodged a complaint with the H Triple C 752 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:23,610 which is the help ok complete remission 753 00:32:30,409 --> 00:32:27,450 thank you because we reproduce something 754 00:32:32,990 --> 00:32:30,419 by Simon Singh we clean our website and 755 00:32:35,539 --> 00:32:33,000 this chiropractor was most unhappy and 756 00:32:39,350 --> 00:32:35,549 complained to the government well we've 757 00:32:41,930 --> 00:32:39,360 responded on our website wwc optics com 758 00:32:43,399 --> 00:32:41,940 au and people can download our response 759 00:32:45,470 --> 00:32:43,409 to that complaint very interesting 760 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:45,480 reading you can see his complaint you 761 00:32:50,389 --> 00:32:47,370 can see our response to this complaint 762 00:32:52,460 --> 00:32:50,399 and basically we reproduce the simon 763 00:32:53,899 --> 00:32:52,470 seeing article beware the spinal trap 764 00:32:56,330 --> 00:32:53,909 which is what caused the original 765 00:32:58,100 --> 00:32:56,340 problems with the guardian as part of a 766 00:33:00,139 --> 00:32:58,110 campaign organized by sense about 767 00:33:01,289 --> 00:33:00,149 science to get it reproduced across the 768 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:01,299 world 769 00:33:05,820 --> 00:33:03,610 at the same time on lots of different 770 00:33:07,919 --> 00:33:05,830 blogs so people could actually read the 771 00:33:10,229 --> 00:33:07,929 article for themselves and he denied 772 00:33:13,979 --> 00:33:10,239 that have you had any feedback from the 773 00:33:15,659 --> 00:33:13,989 hplc not yet it's still all in back and 774 00:33:17,220 --> 00:33:15,669 forth the complaints not due until the 775 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:17,230 16th of October so they won't do 776 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:19,090 anything about it until then so and that 777 00:33:22,889 --> 00:33:21,610 stage will well no but um it's 778 00:33:25,109 --> 00:33:22,899 interesting reading because it's a 779 00:33:27,889 --> 00:33:25,119 little bit rambling as you can play I 780 00:33:30,690 --> 00:33:27,899 know doesn't really address the 781 00:33:32,340 --> 00:33:30,700 legislation you know you would assume 782 00:33:33,989 --> 00:33:32,350 that if he's claiming that we've 783 00:33:35,700 --> 00:33:33,999 breached the legislation he would cite 784 00:33:37,729 --> 00:33:35,710 this part of the legislation but more 785 00:33:39,869 --> 00:33:37,739 more of a rambling defense of 786 00:33:41,909 --> 00:33:39,879 chiropractic isn't yeah and it's more a 787 00:33:43,859 --> 00:33:41,919 kind of stamp my little foot on cranky 788 00:33:45,509 --> 00:33:43,869 at you kind of I thought you hear 789 00:33:47,549 --> 00:33:45,519 something it's not it's a bit very well 790 00:33:49,139 --> 00:33:47,559 structured or laid out and um yeah but 791 00:33:50,340 --> 00:33:49,149 have a look at the ones i think it's all 792 00:33:52,470 --> 00:33:50,350 day god for yourself his whole 793 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:52,480 complaints there plus our our red spots 794 00:34:00,479 --> 00:33:55,690 here well let's toss the button to joe 795 00:34:02,129 --> 00:34:00,489 joe yeah baby um well i think one of the 796 00:34:06,140 --> 00:34:02,139 big news items which we've all been 797 00:34:09,860 --> 00:34:06,150 hearing about last 24 hours is the 798 00:34:11,659 --> 00:34:09,870 brr nobel prize for medicine hmm which 799 00:34:13,159 --> 00:34:11,669 most are these are feeling rather 800 00:34:16,940 --> 00:34:13,169 chuffed about because we've had our 801 00:34:19,490 --> 00:34:16,950 first ever female Nobel laureate which 802 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:19,500 is dr. that sorry professor Elizabeth 803 00:34:25,340 --> 00:34:22,610 Blackburn who is a molecular biologist 804 00:34:27,919 --> 00:34:25,350 who is from Tasmania originally but is 805 00:34:31,399 --> 00:34:27,929 now based in the States and mr. 806 00:34:34,730 --> 00:34:31,409 Blackburn won the nobel prize for her 807 00:34:35,990 --> 00:34:34,740 study of telomeres which are end up 808 00:34:40,250 --> 00:34:36,000 reaching knows far more about this than 809 00:34:42,860 --> 00:34:40,260 I do but they are the caps that protect 810 00:34:44,720 --> 00:34:42,870 the chromosomes in cells and professor 811 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:44,730 Blackburn discovered the telomerase 812 00:34:49,460 --> 00:34:47,130 which is an enzyme that effectively 813 00:34:51,649 --> 00:34:49,470 controls the protection of the 814 00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:51,659 chromosome yeah and she did this along 815 00:34:59,870 --> 00:34:57,450 with Jack szostak who worked on the DNA 816 00:35:01,730 --> 00:34:59,880 sequence part of the telomere and Carol 817 00:35:06,460 --> 00:35:01,740 Greider who I did identify the 818 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:06,470 telomerase and the fantastic thing about 819 00:35:13,790 --> 00:35:09,330 professor Blackburn is that she is a 820 00:35:16,310 --> 00:35:13,800 very outspoken scientist who is very 821 00:35:20,030 --> 00:35:16,320 much for the non politicization of 822 00:35:21,500 --> 00:35:20,040 science and I was actually as I read 823 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:21,510 today she was actually dropped from 824 00:35:27,740 --> 00:35:23,690 George Bush's Council on bioethics in 825 00:35:31,340 --> 00:35:27,750 2004 after questioning bias of this some 826 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:31,350 his counsel what about Donna so she is 827 00:35:38,270 --> 00:35:36,570 very very Pro what I think you know the 828 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:38,280 scientific community stands for and 829 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:41,370 skeptical community stands for and all 830 00:35:43,780 --> 00:35:42,330 around town 831 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:43,790 for other special human being 832 00:35:48,170 --> 00:35:45,930 congratulations to her that's wonderful 833 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:48,180 news wonderful news mmm I'm always 834 00:35:51,590 --> 00:35:49,530 mentioning to Joe a little bit earlier 835 00:35:54,140 --> 00:35:51,600 that I heard a lot of coverage about 836 00:35:58,360 --> 00:35:54,150 this this morning on the radio and a 837 00:36:00,920 --> 00:35:58,370 couple of announcers on our public 838 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:00,930 broadcaster or government broadcast 839 00:36:05,630 --> 00:36:03,930 eventually the ABC we're saying that 840 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:05,640 this is a such an amazing discovery 841 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:09,810 because as you know the telomere if it 842 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:12,090 degrades that is thought to be linked to 843 00:36:16,460 --> 00:36:14,610 aging so if you can maintain the length 844 00:36:18,380 --> 00:36:16,470 of the end of the chromosomes which is 845 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:18,390 called the telomere you can prevent 846 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:21,690 aging and so it's not really knowing 847 00:36:25,670 --> 00:36:23,130 whether there's a direct connection but 848 00:36:29,540 --> 00:36:25,680 it is known that as it breaks down it in 849 00:36:31,610 --> 00:36:29,550 aging occurs oh so that these two 850 00:36:33,290 --> 00:36:31,620 presenters on the radio we're saying 851 00:36:36,860 --> 00:36:33,300 that this is so amazing it such a 852 00:36:39,170 --> 00:36:36,870 breakthrough but now we won't need it's 853 00:36:41,060 --> 00:36:39,180 basically a solution to aging and the 854 00:36:42,770 --> 00:36:41,070 cosmetics industry is going to go broke 855 00:36:46,010 --> 00:36:42,780 because we can just add some of this 856 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:46,020 enzyme into some face cream and only 857 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:48,330 forever and they use the media's 858 00:36:52,550 --> 00:36:50,610 favorite word breakthrough but the thing 859 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:52,560 is they weren't really joking I know 860 00:36:57,260 --> 00:36:55,170 they were and the thing that really 861 00:36:59,630 --> 00:36:57,270 surprised me about it was one of them 862 00:37:04,480 --> 00:36:59,640 should know better I'm not going to 863 00:37:08,870 --> 00:37:07,220 know I mean Nobel Prizes don't happen 864 00:37:11,720 --> 00:37:08,880 overnight and this research has been 865 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:11,730 around for 20 years decades you know 866 00:37:15,410 --> 00:37:13,050 we've known about the existence of 867 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:15,420 telomeres for a long time and they 868 00:37:19,580 --> 00:37:17,490 haven't revolutionized the cosmetics 869 00:37:21,950 --> 00:37:19,590 industry and that's really not the point 870 00:37:23,750 --> 00:37:21,960 of this discover anyway in fact that's 871 00:37:25,910 --> 00:37:23,760 one of the things is that the it's the 872 00:37:30,350 --> 00:37:25,920 implications of this work that are so 873 00:37:32,300 --> 00:37:30,360 important and you know anti-aging is is 874 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:32,310 the the last thing that it would be used 875 00:37:36,470 --> 00:37:34,290 for and in fact me but I heard that too 876 00:37:38,660 --> 00:37:36,480 actually in news reports today I mean 877 00:37:40,010 --> 00:37:38,670 that's the the media especially the 878 00:37:41,900 --> 00:37:40,020 commercial media will look for something 879 00:37:43,950 --> 00:37:41,910 in this they can latch on to Warren 880 00:37:45,510 --> 00:37:43,960 Australian even though she's been living 881 00:37:47,370 --> 00:37:45,520 in the States for 30 years it doesn't 882 00:37:49,530 --> 00:37:47,380 matter she's a naughty when it comes to 883 00:37:52,110 --> 00:37:49,540 this led to something out is the better 884 00:37:55,380 --> 00:37:52,120 oh yeah yeah something the public can 885 00:37:57,530 --> 00:37:55,390 easily understand Oh antiaging Bing Bing 886 00:38:01,080 --> 00:37:57,540 Bing Bing and and it just demonstrates 887 00:38:04,350 --> 00:38:01,090 the you know scientific illiteracy oh 888 00:38:06,390 --> 00:38:04,360 yeah media who are abortion on this that 889 00:38:08,730 --> 00:38:06,400 you know the real importance of this 890 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:08,740 which is actually in in cancer research 891 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:12,610 and in how we can you know how we can 892 00:38:17,430 --> 00:38:14,410 actually look at drugs which may be able 893 00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:17,440 to target these areas because part of it 894 00:38:22,820 --> 00:38:18,730 is that it's very much involved in how 895 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:22,830 cancer cells grow and pretty frayed so 896 00:38:27,330 --> 00:38:25,210 you know that that's really important 897 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:27,340 nevertheless nevertheless it's a good 898 00:38:30,780 --> 00:38:29,410 thing it's a good it is in any case the 899 00:38:32,490 --> 00:38:30,790 cosmetic industry has already got that 900 00:38:35,220 --> 00:38:32,500 sorted I think I've got stuff called day 901 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:35,230 and age anyway so don't either i don't 902 00:38:42,630 --> 00:38:37,570 think the cosmetic industry are in any 903 00:38:44,130 --> 00:38:42,640 fear of going broke no no but that face 904 00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:44,140 pack you're currently wearing Richard 905 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:48,250 would you think it's called salmon 906 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:53,290 Express yes every morning i slept raw 907 00:38:58,830 --> 00:38:56,170 salmon on my face I have to keep the 908 00:39:01,080 --> 00:38:58,840 grizzly bears at bay but like this let's 909 00:39:05,790 --> 00:39:01,090 cross the base with the wet babe that's 910 00:39:07,380 --> 00:39:05,800 it and then you get to nominate but of 911 00:39:12,270 --> 00:39:07,390 course the counterpart to the Nobel 912 00:39:16,230 --> 00:39:12,280 Prize is the ignoble progress which as 913 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:16,240 the presenters of the ignoble prize say 914 00:39:21,690 --> 00:39:19,330 that um that the aim of ignoble czar to 915 00:39:24,210 --> 00:39:21,700 present science which first makes people 916 00:39:25,470 --> 00:39:24,220 laugh and makes people think and they're 917 00:39:27,570 --> 00:39:25,480 presented by the annals of improbable 918 00:39:28,980 --> 00:39:27,580 research and the winners this year I 919 00:39:30,510 --> 00:39:28,990 won't give you all of them you can go 920 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:30,520 and look at them yourself on the the 921 00:39:33,720 --> 00:39:32,170 website for the ignoble speech I don't 922 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:33,730 actually have the name of at hand we 923 00:39:39,410 --> 00:39:36,130 shouldn't be hard to find but some of 924 00:39:42,530 --> 00:39:39,420 them were really quite fabulous so 925 00:39:45,049 --> 00:39:42,540 I think the winner for the public health 926 00:39:46,460 --> 00:39:45,059 prize went to dr. Elena Bodnar who 927 00:39:48,349 --> 00:39:46,470 invented a brassiere which in an 928 00:39:55,190 --> 00:39:48,359 emergency can be converted to to face 929 00:39:56,990 --> 00:39:55,200 Mars and there's a lovely pressure here 930 00:40:01,460 --> 00:39:57,000 which you can see the grip so do people 931 00:40:03,260 --> 00:40:01,470 man some poor man wearing a bra / 932 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:03,270 they're wearing it you're wearing it 933 00:40:09,530 --> 00:40:05,970 yeah it's it's attractive it is yes 934 00:40:11,299 --> 00:40:09,540 becoming mmm so like if there's an 935 00:40:13,819 --> 00:40:11,309 emergency and you need a face mask hey 936 00:40:15,380 --> 00:40:13,829 just give the nearby woman to offer are 937 00:40:17,599 --> 00:40:15,390 you know women are very good at you know 938 00:40:21,530 --> 00:40:17,609 yeah they're under and then you shove 939 00:40:24,049 --> 00:40:21,540 your face in it boom yeah well you never 940 00:40:25,910 --> 00:40:24,059 know when you need fetish market yeah 941 00:40:28,180 --> 00:40:25,920 you never know when saying but these are 942 00:40:30,500 --> 00:40:28,190 special these are special bras with 943 00:40:33,370 --> 00:40:30,510 strap so you have separate on your head 944 00:40:37,220 --> 00:40:33,380 or something they've got some kind of 945 00:40:40,370 --> 00:40:37,230 each bra cup each bras Kupchak section 946 00:40:41,809 --> 00:40:40,380 is fitted with the filter device meaning 947 00:40:44,180 --> 00:40:41,819 the wearer can rip it off and attach 948 00:40:46,910 --> 00:40:44,190 each section to fit it over the place so 949 00:40:49,910 --> 00:40:46,920 an emergency the wearer gets one and she 950 00:40:52,220 --> 00:40:49,920 asked you which you know I kind of like 951 00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:52,230 how an aeroplane you have to figure I'm 952 00:41:00,650 --> 00:40:57,450 a small boy lovers ah I got to see that 953 00:41:03,410 --> 00:41:00,660 on the switch tha now some of the other 954 00:41:05,289 --> 00:41:03,420 prizes where rum the Peace Prize went to 955 00:41:07,910 --> 00:41:05,299 Stephen Bollinger and Stephen Ross 956 00:41:09,890 --> 00:41:07,920 amongst others from Switzerland for 957 00:41:11,299 --> 00:41:09,900 determining by experiment whether it is 958 00:41:13,069 --> 00:41:11,309 better to be smashed over the head with 959 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:13,079 a full bottle of beer or with an empty 960 00:41:18,049 --> 00:41:14,690 bottle up there 961 00:41:20,269 --> 00:41:18,059 mm-hmm and we were going to conduct 962 00:41:22,220 --> 00:41:20,279 their own Testament we dr. hu actually 963 00:41:24,499 --> 00:41:22,230 we should we should we should submit 964 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:24,509 that the next she is ignoble Spurs yeah 965 00:41:27,799 --> 00:41:26,490 I was looking at a journal today a 966 00:41:29,539 --> 00:41:27,809 science journal and I was trying to 967 00:41:31,609 --> 00:41:29,549 determine the impact factor which is 968 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:31,619 sort of the you know importance of the 969 00:41:36,319 --> 00:41:34,130 journal has known as an impact factor in 970 00:41:40,069 --> 00:41:36,329 journals are rated according to their 971 00:41:41,569 --> 00:41:40,079 importance and I asked you what with you 972 00:41:43,220 --> 00:41:41,579 thought the impact factor might be and 973 00:41:45,499 --> 00:41:43,230 you suggested that perhaps if I bring 974 00:41:47,150 --> 00:41:45,509 the journal tonight and whack you over 975 00:41:51,950 --> 00:41:47,160 the head with it we could determine the 976 00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:51,960 impact factor on your head well look I 977 00:41:57,620 --> 00:41:55,890 happened is that this experiment right 978 00:41:58,960 --> 00:41:57,630 now I'm wondering what you know perhaps 979 00:42:01,220 --> 00:41:58,970 something from the Journal of homeopathy 980 00:42:04,759 --> 00:42:01,230 visit a the New England Journal of men 981 00:42:07,130 --> 00:42:04,769 all I got here is living now australia's 982 00:42:09,950 --> 00:42:07,140 favourite holistic magazine which has 983 00:42:12,380 --> 00:42:09,960 amongst other things on page 33 swine 984 00:42:14,359 --> 00:42:12,390 flu are we being set up which is an 985 00:42:19,279 --> 00:42:14,369 anti-vaccination rent so look Rachel 986 00:42:25,990 --> 00:42:19,289 I'll call the roll it up not only on 987 00:42:34,069 --> 00:42:26,000 their head ready oh that wasn't much of 988 00:42:37,299 --> 00:42:34,079 a no no no much impact like a bear okay 989 00:42:39,710 --> 00:42:37,309 that's good an impact factor it up for 990 00:42:41,059 --> 00:42:39,720 not so yeah give it to me I'd quite 991 00:42:44,660 --> 00:42:41,069 happily going on with you people about 992 00:42:46,819 --> 00:42:44,670 this then no vowel better Nova sterling 993 00:42:49,039 --> 00:42:46,829 that's an impactor for and no this is 994 00:42:51,380 --> 00:42:49,049 Nova Australia's holistic journal all 995 00:42:53,329 --> 00:42:51,390 right this is the holistic magazine 996 00:43:00,049 --> 00:42:53,339 going on me on the head Cheyenne's gonna 997 00:43:02,779 --> 00:43:00,059 know me ready ready yep oh sorry reach 998 00:43:07,359 --> 00:43:02,789 okay that's right i think we possibly 999 00:43:12,620 --> 00:43:10,460 okay so that's a reasonably low impact 1000 00:43:16,249 --> 00:43:12,630 factor in the scheme of things ah just 1001 00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:16,259 kidding me 10 yes for example the lancer 1002 00:43:22,010 --> 00:43:19,290 has an impact factor around 40 1003 00:43:23,630 --> 00:43:22,020 and neurotoxicology which is where 1004 00:43:25,940 --> 00:43:23,640 Andrew Wakefield's recently published a 1005 00:43:27,770 --> 00:43:25,950 new article is too alright well that's a 1006 00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:27,780 you fallen right near the bottom of the 1007 00:43:33,290 --> 00:43:31,890 bell curve there okay yes but I mean one 1008 00:43:35,630 --> 00:43:33,300 of one of the factors that could be 1009 00:43:38,630 --> 00:43:35,640 contributing to this is to kill an older 1010 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:38,640 than that yeah that's true yeah and also 1011 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:41,090 we need to do it at least three times 1012 00:43:47,090 --> 00:43:43,290 yeah I think this could be an ignorable 1013 00:43:51,380 --> 00:43:47,100 the impact various new magazines on my 1014 00:43:54,170 --> 00:43:51,390 noggin great let's submit it for next 1015 00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:54,180 year what else have you got it oh I love 1016 00:44:00,050 --> 00:43:56,610 this one um the prize for physics went 1017 00:44:02,510 --> 00:44:00,060 to Kathryn wit command Daniel Lieberman 1018 00:44:04,910 --> 00:44:02,520 and laser Shapiro from the universities 1019 00:44:07,070 --> 00:44:04,920 of Cincinnati in texas for analytically 1020 00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:07,080 determining why pregnant women don't tip 1021 00:44:14,450 --> 00:44:11,130 over oh my god i'm just wondering 1022 00:44:16,820 --> 00:44:14,460 whether this paper actually involved you 1023 00:44:19,730 --> 00:44:16,830 know tipping pregnant women some of them 1024 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:19,740 like i was a cow tipping or don't like 1025 00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:21,210 when they're asleep standing up yeah 1026 00:44:28,670 --> 00:44:23,010 little cut to buy a cheap them with no 1027 00:44:32,720 --> 00:44:28,680 doubt I don't know and just the last one 1028 00:44:34,940 --> 00:44:32,730 I'll mention to you it I can came in 1029 00:44:37,130 --> 00:44:34,950 light of the the global financial crisis 1030 00:44:39,410 --> 00:44:37,140 was the economics prize and many of us 1031 00:44:41,750 --> 00:44:39,420 would remember that either banks in 1032 00:44:44,540 --> 00:44:41,760 Iceland to her either harden off during 1033 00:44:48,410 --> 00:44:44,550 global financial crisis so do we are I 1034 00:44:50,990 --> 00:44:48,420 say yeah the in revelle price it's the 1035 00:44:52,730 --> 00:44:51,000 bank that when I am i safe oh so the 1036 00:44:54,770 --> 00:44:52,740 Nobel Prize for economics went to the 1037 00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:54,780 directors executives and auditors of 1038 00:44:59,000 --> 00:44:57,330 auditors of for Icelandic banks for 1039 00:45:01,100 --> 00:44:59,010 demonstrating that tiny banks can be 1040 00:45:03,380 --> 00:45:01,110 rapidly transformed into huge banks and 1041 00:45:05,090 --> 00:45:03,390 vice versa and for demonstrating that 1042 00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:05,100 similar things can be done to an entire 1043 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:08,970 national economy so some lovely prizes 1044 00:45:13,010 --> 00:45:11,010 to see you can give Nobel also need you 1045 00:45:15,590 --> 00:45:13,020 mentioned that the 1i particular my 1046 00:45:19,220 --> 00:45:15,600 fancy Joe is one about the cow cows yeah 1047 00:45:21,410 --> 00:45:19,230 the prize for veterinary medicine from 1048 00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:21,420 Newcastle University for showing that 1049 00:45:23,970 --> 00:45:23,370 cows you have names give more milk than 1050 00:45:26,849 --> 00:45:23,980 cows 1051 00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:26,859 are nameless Wow what but interestingly 1052 00:45:32,540 --> 00:45:30,250 you know that's the the lehman's title 1053 00:45:35,130 --> 00:45:32,550 the actual name of the researchers 1054 00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:35,140 exploring stock managers perceptions of 1055 00:45:39,180 --> 00:45:37,210 the human animal relationship on dairy 1056 00:45:45,359 --> 00:45:39,190 farms and an association with milk 1057 00:45:48,780 --> 00:45:45,369 production standing so Daisy give us 1058 00:45:53,930 --> 00:45:48,790 more milk than the brown cow mmm-hmm or 1059 00:45:57,599 --> 00:45:53,940 Daisy gives more milk than 4121 stroke 1060 00:46:04,170 --> 00:45:57,609 hmm thank you to the ignoble this year 1061 00:46:06,090 --> 00:46:04,180 thank you Joe oh oh you're going sorry 1062 00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:06,100 no I'm sorry I was just thinking about 1063 00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:13,050 daisy the cow in fact I want to nominate 1064 00:46:20,820 --> 00:46:15,810 she does she's thing about the stakes 1065 00:46:24,420 --> 00:46:20,830 ice cream and the yogurt I'm an iced 1066 00:46:26,849 --> 00:46:24,430 milk I've blogged about this yesterday 1067 00:46:29,370 --> 00:46:26,859 in fact I'm the skeptics book of food 1068 00:46:31,770 --> 00:46:29,380 basket which is Rebecca Watson's 1069 00:46:33,210 --> 00:46:31,780 favorite name for a blog because she 1070 00:46:36,300 --> 00:46:33,220 particularly liked it when I was 1071 00:46:38,580 --> 00:46:36,310 presenting at Nexus John Rennie who is 1072 00:46:41,700 --> 00:46:38,590 the editor-in-chief of Scientific 1073 00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:41,710 American was moderating my panel and he 1074 00:46:45,990 --> 00:46:43,810 had to introduce me so he had to read 1075 00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:46,000 out in front of the 400 see the venue 1076 00:46:54,510 --> 00:46:47,650 that I write for the skeptics book with 1077 00:46:56,340 --> 00:46:54,520 cuckoo ok Rebecca a chuckle anyway many 1078 00:46:59,220 --> 00:46:56,350 of us would have heard about the tragic 1079 00:47:01,950 --> 00:46:59,230 death of 14 year old Natalie Morton last 1080 00:47:04,380 --> 00:47:01,960 week who died and just hours after 1081 00:47:07,380 --> 00:47:04,390 receiving the HPV and cervical cancer 1082 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:07,390 vaccine in the UK and of course the 1083 00:47:13,620 --> 00:47:09,130 anti-vaxxers have got hysterical as they 1084 00:47:15,930 --> 00:47:13,630 want to want to do now the autopsy which 1085 00:47:17,609 --> 00:47:15,940 was released a few days ago showed that 1086 00:47:19,740 --> 00:47:17,619 she actually had a malignant tumor in 1087 00:47:22,830 --> 00:47:19,750 her chest and this was deemed the cause 1088 00:47:24,540 --> 00:47:22,840 of her death but of course correlation 1089 00:47:26,580 --> 00:47:24,550 equals causation in the world of anti 1090 00:47:30,150 --> 00:47:26,590 back so they're saying that it can't be 1091 00:47:31,710 --> 00:47:30,160 so of course this is all over the web 1092 00:47:34,109 --> 00:47:31,720 all over the internet but there was one 1093 00:47:36,870 --> 00:47:34,119 particular article that I decided I will 1094 00:47:40,380 --> 00:47:36,880 done sort of dissect and that was from a 1095 00:47:42,630 --> 00:47:40,390 website called naturalnews com now these 1096 00:47:46,710 --> 00:47:42,640 guys had an opinion piece which shown 1097 00:47:49,109 --> 00:47:46,720 where they basically said that um the 1098 00:47:52,250 --> 00:47:49,119 mainstream media is obviously reporting 1099 00:47:54,390 --> 00:47:52,260 a fabricated explanation for her death 1100 00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:54,400 and they're saying that a pathologist 1101 00:47:58,770 --> 00:47:56,050 just declaring that Natalie died from a 1102 00:48:00,599 --> 00:47:58,780 malignant chester tumor that just 1103 00:48:05,450 --> 00:48:00,609 coincidentally and suddenly kill her 1104 00:48:08,190 --> 00:48:05,460 within hours so they're saying that 1105 00:48:10,260 --> 00:48:08,200 blaming it on cancer is very easy to do 1106 00:48:12,710 --> 00:48:10,270 since every person living today has 1107 00:48:15,540 --> 00:48:12,720 cancerous tumors in their body right now 1108 00:48:17,609 --> 00:48:15,550 all the pathologist has to do was locate 1109 00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:17,619 such a tumor then dismiss the vaccine 1110 00:48:23,099 --> 00:48:21,490 altogether you're kidding no they're 1111 00:48:24,690 --> 00:48:23,109 also saying here but why would a 1112 00:48:27,359 --> 00:48:24,700 pathologist cover up the true cause of 1113 00:48:29,010 --> 00:48:27,369 Natalie nationally Morton's death so 1114 00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:29,020 they're inferring that the largest is in 1115 00:48:33,900 --> 00:48:32,290 fact light line no gently and then this 1116 00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:33,910 is what they said about the executives 1117 00:48:40,290 --> 00:48:36,850 of glaxosmithkline who are the people 1118 00:48:42,450 --> 00:48:40,300 that manufacture the vaccine this person 1119 00:48:44,580 --> 00:48:42,460 said it takes a real cold-hearted CEO to 1120 00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:44,590 watch your product potentially kill a 1121 00:48:48,390 --> 00:48:46,930 fourteen-year-old girl in mere hours and 1122 00:48:52,500 --> 00:48:48,400 then continue to recommend that same 1123 00:48:55,859 --> 00:48:52,510 product to millions more so in an even 1124 00:49:00,060 --> 00:48:55,869 more preposterous link of them of leap 1125 00:49:02,279 --> 00:49:00,070 of logic logic and apparently a great 1126 00:49:05,339 --> 00:49:02,289 show smithkline spokesman 1127 00:49:07,469 --> 00:49:05,349 said GSK's deepest sympathies lie with 1128 00:49:10,380 --> 00:49:07,479 the parents at this very sad time and 1129 00:49:12,870 --> 00:49:10,390 this commentator has said that it is 1130 00:49:15,179 --> 00:49:12,880 merely a Freudian sleeping since this 1131 00:49:21,569 --> 00:49:15,189 statement contains the word parents and 1132 00:49:24,089 --> 00:49:21,579 lying there for what here because we can 1133 00:49:26,219 --> 00:49:24,099 only because he used the word lie that 1134 00:49:28,049 --> 00:49:26,229 Apple's lie with the parents this was a 1135 00:49:30,329 --> 00:49:28,059 freudian slip because you used the word 1136 00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:30,339 loss so therefore he's actually lying to 1137 00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:32,890 the parents about the cause of death of 1138 00:49:39,449 --> 00:49:35,890 the of Natalie water I mean the thing is 1139 00:49:42,269 --> 00:49:39,459 natural news are notorious for the most 1140 00:49:44,609 --> 00:49:42,279 egregious post I mean this is the same 1141 00:49:47,219 --> 00:49:44,619 website that posted that absolutely 1142 00:49:49,829 --> 00:49:47,229 disgusting piece about Patrick Swayze 1143 00:49:52,319 --> 00:49:49,839 after he died claiming that if he had 1144 00:49:54,870 --> 00:49:52,329 taken natural remedies then he would 1145 00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:54,880 have been cured of his pancreatic cancer 1146 00:49:58,919 --> 00:49:56,650 every now and then you just think you've 1147 00:50:00,509 --> 00:49:58,929 heard it all right you really do I mean 1148 00:50:04,169 --> 00:50:00,519 I've been at this for a long time but 1149 00:50:06,059 --> 00:50:04,179 that one the Freudian slip I know it's 1150 00:50:07,679 --> 00:50:06,069 amazing isn't it I mean this you're 1151 00:50:10,259 --> 00:50:07,689 right Joe and this is also the website 1152 00:50:15,529 --> 00:50:10,269 that published the press release 1153 00:50:21,949 --> 00:50:15,539 recently which was claiming that a 1154 00:50:24,569 --> 00:50:21,959 lawsuit had been the gun in the USA to 1155 00:50:25,589 --> 00:50:24,579 challenge compulsory vaccination and it 1156 00:50:28,499 --> 00:50:25,599 looked like it was going to be the 1157 00:50:31,799 --> 00:50:28,509 beginning of the rolling back of 1158 00:50:34,289 --> 00:50:31,809 compulsory vaccination in the USA and it 1159 00:50:36,359 --> 00:50:34,299 turned out after that was sent all over 1160 00:50:38,849 --> 00:50:36,369 the internet and the avn sent it out as 1161 00:50:41,099 --> 00:50:38,859 a press release as well that in fact the 1162 00:50:45,390 --> 00:50:41,109 UM there were some errors in that story 1163 00:50:48,059 --> 00:50:45,400 and they did actually submit to write a 1164 00:50:50,130 --> 00:50:48,069 retraction and the interesting thing 1165 00:50:52,620 --> 00:50:50,140 about the retraction was they said for 1166 00:50:54,839 --> 00:50:52,630 the record what was factually incorrect 1167 00:50:57,209 --> 00:50:54,849 about the story is that no such 1168 00:50:58,679 --> 00:50:57,219 injunction has been filed thus the 1169 00:51:02,759 --> 00:50:58,689 entire premise of the story was 1170 00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:02,769 factually incorrect it's not like in 1171 00:51:07,969 --> 00:51:05,650 paragraph three line for we said this is 1172 00:51:10,630 --> 00:51:07,979 mr. joe bloggs instead of Jim Bob hmm 1173 00:51:13,780 --> 00:51:10,640 the whole thing was a hoax 1174 00:51:15,610 --> 00:51:13,790 hmm and they said that it got missed by 1175 00:51:17,980 --> 00:51:15,620 their in-house editor who did not catch 1176 00:51:19,690 --> 00:51:17,990 the significant errors in the article I 1177 00:51:21,130 --> 00:51:19,700 mean they weren't the only ones to be 1178 00:51:23,860 --> 00:51:21,140 duped by the way it would happen to a 1179 00:51:26,140 --> 00:51:23,870 lot of people they were one of the few 1180 00:51:27,580 --> 00:51:26,150 to actually write a retraction and I 1181 00:51:29,380 --> 00:51:27,590 know several people that wrote to the 1182 00:51:30,970 --> 00:51:29,390 avn and politely suggested they might 1183 00:51:32,830 --> 00:51:30,980 like to issue a retraction but that 1184 00:51:35,470 --> 00:51:32,840 never was never forthcoming but in any 1185 00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:35,480 case apart from is being completely 1186 00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:38,210 outrageous it's also potentially 1187 00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:42,890 libelous India because they're basically 1188 00:51:47,830 --> 00:51:45,050 saying that the pathologist is covering 1189 00:51:51,100 --> 00:51:47,840 up the use of Natalie's death they're 1190 00:51:52,990 --> 00:51:51,110 inferring that that GSK knows that it 1191 00:51:55,090 --> 00:51:53,000 was the vaccine and despite that is 1192 00:51:59,920 --> 00:51:55,100 still recommending it to other two other 1193 00:52:03,070 --> 00:51:59,930 young girls so you know I mean if they 1194 00:52:04,660 --> 00:52:03,080 wanted to take this to to a situation 1195 00:52:09,220 --> 00:52:04,670 where they were to see them I'm sure 1196 00:52:10,630 --> 00:52:09,230 that this is defamation it certainly 1197 00:52:12,910 --> 00:52:10,640 seems like it and the thing I find 1198 00:52:15,510 --> 00:52:12,920 alarming as well as they didn't you know 1199 00:52:21,270 --> 00:52:15,520 in the country like 1200 00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:21,280 England where the MMR autism propaganda 1201 00:52:28,140 --> 00:52:25,690 hit particularly hard the confusion and 1202 00:52:30,660 --> 00:52:28,150 misinformation over vaccination is to 1203 00:52:32,100 --> 00:52:30,670 get strong and vaccinations have really 1204 00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:32,110 taken a hit and as we know they've been 1205 00:52:40,650 --> 00:52:36,130 measles out it's and so on so you know 1206 00:52:42,300 --> 00:52:40,660 and the UK tabloids being as using as 1207 00:52:43,740 --> 00:52:42,310 much shock value as they can i'm going 1208 00:52:45,270 --> 00:52:43,750 to run with this sort of thing and the 1209 00:52:48,780 --> 00:52:45,280 first things that come to have but have 1210 00:52:50,190 --> 00:52:48,790 any you know in shock value so you know 1211 00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:50,200 i mean this kind of thing really has 1212 00:52:55,650 --> 00:52:53,290 potential to decrease the uptake of what 1213 00:52:59,940 --> 00:52:55,660 is a essentially life-saving vaccine 1214 00:53:01,560 --> 00:52:59,950 yeah so I mean this is it's the same as 1215 00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:01,570 all this nonsense that surrounding swine 1216 00:53:05,370 --> 00:53:03,370 flu safety and hasn't been tested and 1217 00:53:07,020 --> 00:53:05,380 all that stuff you know I mean Richard 1218 00:53:08,790 --> 00:53:07,030 and I spent hours on the weekend going 1219 00:53:10,170 --> 00:53:08,800 through an avian press release and 1220 00:53:13,410 --> 00:53:10,180 rebutting everything that they've said 1221 00:53:16,860 --> 00:53:13,420 about the you know the alleged dangers 1222 00:53:20,550 --> 00:53:16,870 of the swine flu very scenic you know 1223 00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:20,560 and one of those things was that in 1976 1224 00:53:23,850 --> 00:53:22,330 when there was a swine phonemic that 1225 00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:23,860 there were those cases of jelly years 1226 00:53:31,500 --> 00:53:27,690 are a syndrome which is a paralysis 1227 00:53:34,110 --> 00:53:31,510 usually reversible and when you look at 1228 00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:34,120 the at the figures it's the risk of 1229 00:53:38,730 --> 00:53:37,210 getting GBS from the vaccine is the same 1230 00:53:41,910 --> 00:53:38,740 as what you would get in the environment 1231 00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:41,920 from another infection and it's about 1232 00:53:46,260 --> 00:53:44,650 one in a million and the chances of 1233 00:53:48,870 --> 00:53:46,270 getting struck by lightning is about one 1234 00:53:51,720 --> 00:53:48,880 in 70,000 so when you think of it like 1235 00:53:57,810 --> 00:53:51,730 that you know there's a really it mean 1236 00:54:01,350 --> 00:53:57,820 so much of what comes down to Diane has 1237 00:54:03,090 --> 00:54:01,360 a habit of walking around it does 1238 00:54:06,180 --> 00:54:03,100 anybody who follows Diane in computer 1239 00:54:07,890 --> 00:54:06,190 vision post pictures of herself getting 1240 00:54:10,010 --> 00:54:07,900 soaked 1241 00:54:13,410 --> 00:54:10,020 is it really one in seventeen because 1242 00:54:15,240 --> 00:54:13,420 I'm pretty sure it is and I'm sure 1243 00:54:17,579 --> 00:54:15,250 listeners will will fight yet it's a 1244 00:54:19,859 --> 00:54:17,589 it's in a lot more common chubby not I'm 1245 00:54:21,690 --> 00:54:19,869 sure why hear about it yeah some people 1246 00:54:23,700 --> 00:54:21,700 get stuck twice or three times something 1247 00:54:26,220 --> 00:54:23,710 ridiculously well that's true yeah yeah 1248 00:54:28,559 --> 00:54:26,230 but I'm you know and one of the things 1249 00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:28,569 that that also the anti-vaxxers have 1250 00:54:34,170 --> 00:54:31,770 been saying about the GBS thing is that 1251 00:54:38,099 --> 00:54:34,180 the reason that it's a real risk is 1252 00:54:40,650 --> 00:54:38,109 because already UK GPS have been warned 1253 00:54:42,390 --> 00:54:40,660 to look out for it well on the contrary 1254 00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:42,400 that's just an extra safety measure 1255 00:54:46,950 --> 00:54:44,170 because we know it's happened in the 1256 00:54:49,410 --> 00:54:46,960 past and we don't really why are gonna 1257 00:54:51,059 --> 00:54:49,420 look for something anything yeah there 1258 00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:51,069 is a potential risk you're going to look 1259 00:54:57,210 --> 00:54:54,490 so instable live in a good sir yeah mine 1260 00:54:59,970 --> 00:54:57,220 you even if it's you know I'm in adverse 1261 00:55:03,450 --> 00:54:59,980 events a report whether that be you know 1262 00:55:05,309 --> 00:55:03,460 fainting or or fits or whatever and 1263 00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:05,319 that's just I mean this is unique to 1264 00:55:10,700 --> 00:55:06,970 this particular vaccine but I mean 1265 00:55:14,460 --> 00:55:10,710 Rachel as a nurse working in a hospital 1266 00:55:17,190 --> 00:55:14,470 everything we do in medicine is designed 1267 00:55:19,230 --> 00:55:17,200 to safeguard we you know every check we 1268 00:55:21,630 --> 00:55:19,240 do every time we do a procedure and we 1269 00:55:23,549 --> 00:55:21,640 go through a list of people's allergies 1270 00:55:25,470 --> 00:55:23,559 and medical history everything we're 1271 00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:25,480 doing is designed to safeguard patients 1272 00:55:30,170 --> 00:55:27,490 to ensure that things don't go wrong I 1273 00:55:33,059 --> 00:55:30,180 mean you know human error can happen 1274 00:55:37,380 --> 00:55:33,069 things can go wrong there are risks 1275 00:55:39,930 --> 00:55:37,390 involved in everything we do but in in 1276 00:55:42,090 --> 00:55:39,940 well evidenced health care 1277 00:55:44,250 --> 00:55:42,100 we're safeguards are in place it's 1278 00:55:49,610 --> 00:55:44,260 designed to protect people sure it's not 1279 00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:52,320 which actually moves me on to another 1280 00:56:00,240 --> 00:55:56,290 interesting topic what a segue we love 1281 00:56:03,060 --> 00:56:00,250 our segways so I took a little road trip 1282 00:56:05,130 --> 00:56:03,070 to Newcastle a couple of weekends ago 1283 00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:05,140 which is just up the road from Sydney 1284 00:56:09,540 --> 00:56:06,970 yeah north of Sydney it's about a hour 1285 00:56:12,330 --> 00:56:09,550 and a half's drive and very pleasant 1286 00:56:14,130 --> 00:56:12,340 drive down our f3 freeway and about 1287 00:56:18,690 --> 00:56:14,140 halfway between cydia newcastle is a 1288 00:56:21,030 --> 00:56:18,700 little pit stop I can't remember exactly 1289 00:56:22,950 --> 00:56:21,040 where it is but it's halfway down the f3 1290 00:56:27,060 --> 00:56:22,960 between to be under Castle mount why do 1291 00:56:29,130 --> 00:56:27,070 I remember but it's basically the only 1292 00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:29,140 may just stopping point between the two 1293 00:56:36,090 --> 00:56:32,170 and on either side of the road there's a 1294 00:56:37,830 --> 00:56:36,100 petrol station McDonald's and now and 1295 00:56:42,330 --> 00:56:37,840 amongst other little sort of eateries 1296 00:56:45,810 --> 00:56:42,340 and now there is a new restaurant called 1297 00:56:47,310 --> 00:56:45,820 Oliver's which advertises itself and 1298 00:56:49,050 --> 00:56:47,320 I've got some pictures here which I'll 1299 00:56:50,970 --> 00:56:49,060 share with you all of us advertise 1300 00:56:54,150 --> 00:56:50,980 itself as an organic gluten-free 1301 00:56:57,300 --> 00:56:54,160 vegetarian eatery giving people real 1302 00:57:00,780 --> 00:56:57,310 food the thing about Oliver's that has 1303 00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:00,790 really gotten under my skin through 1304 00:57:08,430 --> 00:57:04,570 clenched teeth is that this is not just 1305 00:57:10,290 --> 00:57:08,440 a restaurant that is selling lovely 1306 00:57:12,180 --> 00:57:10,300 healthy food back is there food is 1307 00:57:13,860 --> 00:57:12,190 lovely healthy fresh food it's an 1308 00:57:15,570 --> 00:57:13,870 alternative for people who are stopping 1309 00:57:18,420 --> 00:57:15,580 off you don't want to eat a hamburger or 1310 00:57:21,900 --> 00:57:18,430 something like that but they have taken 1311 00:57:25,410 --> 00:57:21,910 it upon themselves to be a health 1312 00:57:29,100 --> 00:57:25,420 educator of sorts mmm they are if you go 1313 00:57:30,260 --> 00:57:29,110 to their website which find the very 1314 00:57:32,690 --> 00:57:30,270 good at planning website 1315 00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:32,700 anyway if you looking off online you can 1316 00:57:38,150 --> 00:57:35,010 find them but they are promoting the 1317 00:57:40,580 --> 00:57:38,160 whole notion of organic healthy natural 1318 00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:40,590 and so on and in doing this there are a 1319 00:57:43,820 --> 00:57:41,730 couple of things they're doing first of 1320 00:57:46,820 --> 00:57:43,830 all they're selling organic water oh 1321 00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:46,830 good old organic and water as opposed to 1322 00:57:52,610 --> 00:57:49,850 what synthetic as places synthetic water 1323 00:57:55,010 --> 00:57:52,620 600 milliliters of organic water only 1324 00:57:58,280 --> 00:57:55,020 two dollars a tea or two for five 1325 00:57:59,300 --> 00:57:58,290 dollars what a bargain mmm and they're 1326 00:58:01,880 --> 00:57:59,310 actually interesting Lee they're 1327 00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:01,890 affiliated with some fairly important 1328 00:58:06,830 --> 00:58:03,570 organizations such as the University of 1329 00:58:08,210 --> 00:58:06,840 Newcastle and Hart Foundation and a lot 1330 00:58:10,220 --> 00:58:08,220 of organization involved in obesity 1331 00:58:13,910 --> 00:58:10,230 prevention and obesity research and so 1332 00:58:16,010 --> 00:58:13,920 on and they it's a very swish looking 1333 00:58:19,300 --> 00:58:16,020 little organization it's all very bright 1334 00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:19,310 and shiny no longer looking nice logo 1335 00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:22,290 but as you go into the ladies toilets 1336 00:58:24,980 --> 00:58:23,610 the first thing you notice as you walk 1337 00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:24,990 through the door is a big thing on the 1338 00:58:31,430 --> 00:58:26,850 side of the door now some of us go into 1339 00:58:33,260 --> 00:58:31,440 the lady time not man should I know half 1340 00:58:36,500 --> 00:58:33,270 our audience will behind a lazy dick in 1341 00:58:38,870 --> 00:58:36,510 there um they're promoting all sorts of 1342 00:58:43,220 --> 00:58:38,880 reading material from people such as 1343 00:58:45,020 --> 00:58:43,230 Philip day and patrick holford who many 1344 00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:45,030 how long is would have heard of as 1345 00:58:51,110 --> 00:58:48,050 important as welcoming as in leave books 1346 00:58:52,790 --> 00:58:51,120 and for example the book by Philip day 1347 00:58:54,530 --> 00:58:52,800 which they're promoting is called cancer 1348 00:58:58,250 --> 00:58:54,540 why we're still dying to know the truth 1349 00:59:00,290 --> 00:58:58,260 and the promotional pamphlet asks I'll 1350 00:59:03,380 --> 00:59:00,300 chemotherapy radiotherapy and surgery 1351 00:59:06,110 --> 00:59:03,390 really the answer to cancer they ask why 1352 00:59:08,990 --> 00:59:06,120 does Australia have such low cancer 1353 00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:09,000 survival rates I mean it effectively 1354 00:59:12,190 --> 00:59:10,170 they're promoting a whole lot of 1355 00:59:14,859 --> 00:59:12,200 nonsense and 1356 00:59:20,650 --> 00:59:14,869 what natural non-toxic therapies work 1357 00:59:22,359 --> 00:59:20,660 and why have these been marginalized now 1358 00:59:23,859 --> 00:59:22,369 dr. Ishi I thought you'd quite like this 1359 00:59:26,710 --> 00:59:23,869 one they're promoting a product called 1360 00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:26,720 Celtic sea salt and some of the claims 1361 00:59:31,710 --> 00:59:29,810 they make about this is that pure sodium 1362 00:59:34,300 --> 00:59:31,720 chloride is a toxin to the body 1363 00:59:37,510 --> 00:59:34,310 unrefined sea salt has the opposite 1364 00:59:39,730 --> 00:59:37,520 effect on the body that need to put 84 1365 00:59:42,790 --> 00:59:39,740 elements in salt as a buffer to protect 1366 00:59:45,370 --> 00:59:42,800 us from sodium chloride and that big 1367 00:59:47,859 --> 00:59:45,380 companies extract the precious elements 1368 00:59:50,829 --> 00:59:47,869 and result to sell for profit and the 1369 00:59:52,660 --> 00:59:50,839 sodium chloride is what's left over the 1370 00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:52,670 major reaction that we have to the sea 1371 00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:54,530 salt as opposed to this horrible sodium 1372 01:00:00,190 --> 00:59:56,810 chloride is a renewal of energy so its 1373 01:00:01,930 --> 01:00:00,200 standard natural health Amish rubber 1374 01:00:03,700 --> 01:00:01,940 that was just a bunch of djibouti just 1375 01:00:10,839 --> 01:00:03,710 saw a bunch of gibberish about it thank 1376 01:00:16,690 --> 01:00:10,849 you for only fifteen dollars you can buy 1377 01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:16,700 cancer the latest of Regan no let me 1378 01:00:20,950 --> 01:00:19,130 finish don't point Africa that's your 1379 01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:20,960 fifteen dollars you can buy cancer the 1380 01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:24,650 latest breakthrough CD now you can't 1381 01:00:30,339 --> 01:00:27,770 claim to cure cancer no it's illegal but 1382 01:00:31,780 --> 01:00:30,349 are they claim to cure can we go on to 1383 01:00:33,490 --> 01:00:31,790 their website you'll see that they're 1384 01:00:34,780 --> 01:00:33,500 heavily promoting a DVD called food 1385 01:00:37,420 --> 01:00:34,790 matters which I think I might have 1386 01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:37,430 mentioned on the podcast before and food 1387 01:00:41,650 --> 01:00:39,890 matters is a very very slick little 1388 01:00:45,190 --> 01:00:41,660 production from table like patrick 1389 01:00:47,140 --> 01:00:45,200 holford and many of that ilk and it's 1390 01:00:49,300 --> 01:00:47,150 making usual claims about how everything 1391 01:00:52,210 --> 01:00:49,310 in our life everything in our bodies is 1392 01:00:54,819 --> 01:00:52,220 basically preventable with you know this 1393 01:00:57,099 --> 01:00:54,829 perfect perfectly attrition is of course 1394 01:00:58,599 --> 01:00:57,109 it always gets back to you can cure or 1395 01:01:00,910 --> 01:00:58,609 you can prevent all diseases if you eat 1396 01:01:02,530 --> 01:01:00,920 right here I did happy natural hands 1397 01:01:03,780 --> 01:01:02,540 order the hell it is but put hang on a 1398 01:01:06,849 --> 01:01:03,790 second Jerry you just told me that 1399 01:01:08,950 --> 01:01:06,859 sodium chloride is evil right exactly 1400 01:01:11,079 --> 01:01:08,960 but on this particular poster you've put 1401 01:01:13,630 --> 01:01:11,089 in front of me they're saying line water 1402 01:01:17,079 --> 01:01:13,640 and salts are natural medicines 1403 01:01:20,079 --> 01:01:17,089 and for many prevalent and very serious 1404 01:01:23,759 --> 01:01:20,089 medical conditions so they apparently 1405 01:01:27,309 --> 01:01:23,769 cure yeah so according to their one book 1406 01:01:31,210 --> 01:01:27,319 sodium chloride is a toxin truth human 1407 01:01:33,609 --> 01:01:31,220 body but in the other book the salt is 1408 01:01:35,829 --> 01:01:33,619 natural medicine and that apparently the 1409 01:01:39,250 --> 01:01:35,839 public will be seriously misled it's 1410 01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:39,260 good on chips so no that's right it says 1411 01:01:43,150 --> 01:01:40,730 the public has been seriously misled 1412 01:01:46,690 --> 01:01:43,160 over the necessity for the water and 1413 01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:46,700 salt in the diet but then up here on the 1414 01:01:50,410 --> 01:01:48,650 same page they've said that they are 1415 01:01:52,390 --> 01:01:50,420 natural medicines I hear they're saying 1416 01:01:54,789 --> 01:01:52,400 but on our other little thing they're 1417 01:01:58,660 --> 01:01:54,799 saying that it's a yeah I'll sit there 1418 01:02:00,849 --> 01:01:58,670 are contradicting themselves the good 1419 01:02:02,740 --> 01:02:00,859 thing about this that it it that worries 1420 01:02:04,750 --> 01:02:02,750 me is that you know it is going to 1421 01:02:06,819 --> 01:02:04,760 attract people anyone any family driving 1422 01:02:12,059 --> 01:02:06,829 through there is going to want to stop 1423 01:02:15,009 --> 01:02:12,069 at the whole one the whole you know 1424 01:02:17,259 --> 01:02:15,019 colorfulness and it's pretty girl place 1425 01:02:19,359 --> 01:02:17,269 is pretty bad healing and and it's 1426 01:02:22,359 --> 01:02:19,369 really you should seek red bag on doing 1427 01:02:24,130 --> 01:02:22,369 no yes no no we should seek the H Triple 1428 01:02:25,990 --> 01:02:24,140 C on to them actually because a lot of 1429 01:02:27,519 --> 01:02:26,000 this stuff is illegal well we're 1430 01:02:29,259 --> 01:02:27,529 wrapping up pretty soon now but I think 1431 01:02:31,089 --> 01:02:29,269 Julie you've got something else your 1432 01:02:33,759 --> 01:02:31,099 last thing I'm waving a paper to stop 1433 01:02:36,519 --> 01:02:33,769 today hmm so some of you might have 1434 01:02:38,170 --> 01:02:36,529 heard in the news today that there's 1435 01:02:40,499 --> 01:02:38,180 been another development in 1436 01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:40,509 investigations of the Shroud of Turin 1437 01:02:45,759 --> 01:02:43,970 sure I haven't read it myself but a the 1438 01:02:49,749 --> 01:02:45,769 very well-known investigative the 1439 01:02:52,490 --> 01:02:49,759 paranormal Jerry Nicole is very very 1440 01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:52,500 knowledgeable on the strata cheering 1441 01:02:57,650 --> 01:02:54,210 his book inquest on the shroud of turin 1442 01:02:59,990 --> 01:02:57,660 was published back in 1987 and yet still 1443 01:03:01,940 --> 01:03:00,000 despite many of the scientific studies 1444 01:03:03,860 --> 01:03:01,950 of the shroud there are still people 1445 01:03:08,330 --> 01:03:03,870 today who of course believe shraddha 1446 01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:08,340 cheerin is is real but ever what was 1447 01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:10,650 done and interestingly the research 1448 01:03:15,080 --> 01:03:13,050 group who funded this were an italian 1449 01:03:18,730 --> 01:03:15,090 organization of atheists agnostics and 1450 01:03:23,870 --> 01:03:18,740 as they called it a debunking group and 1451 01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:23,880 they were able to use certain techniques 1452 01:03:29,060 --> 01:03:26,690 to prove that the shroud could have been 1453 01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:29,070 manufactured or made using the 1454 01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:31,530 techniques available in the 13th or 14th 1455 01:03:35,990 --> 01:03:33,330 minute words which is when it was carbon 1456 01:03:38,900 --> 01:03:36,000 dated to yeah um and they've been able 1457 01:03:41,420 --> 01:03:38,910 to reproduce the equivalent to the 1458 01:03:44,660 --> 01:03:41,430 shroud I'm showing further that it was a 1459 01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:44,670 man-made fake so a nice little nice 1460 01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:47,130 little piece of research from this group 1461 01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:50,850 and as I said despite the fact that um 1462 01:03:55,400 --> 01:03:53,490 it's long been known that it was a fake 1463 01:03:56,960 --> 01:03:55,410 here's another it's actually interesting 1464 01:04:00,410 --> 01:03:56,970 that their catholic church hasn't 1465 01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:00,420 actually said it's the authentic chad 1466 01:04:05,270 --> 01:04:01,890 they haven't actually authenticated they 1467 01:04:07,400 --> 01:04:05,280 say it's a religious you know it 1468 01:04:09,290 --> 01:04:07,410 establishes faith and what happen aside 1469 01:04:10,910 --> 01:04:09,300 it is an interesting yeah that's true 1470 01:04:12,620 --> 01:04:10,920 diner i read that as well they're saying 1471 01:04:14,180 --> 01:04:12,630 that the church makes no claims about 1472 01:04:16,460 --> 01:04:14,190 its authenticity but that it's a 1473 01:04:20,900 --> 01:04:16,470 powerful symbol across that's right so 1474 01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:20,910 do that that's very true well another 1475 01:04:28,470 --> 01:04:23,730 interesting note and we made it through 1476 01:04:35,370 --> 01:04:31,460 can you believe it I feel unfulfilled 1477 01:04:38,220 --> 01:04:35,380 what our listeners can you maybe what I 1478 01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:38,230 did what I wanted oh no I maybe one of 1479 01:04:41,690 --> 01:04:39,850 us can recorder personnel I tell right 1480 01:04:43,950 --> 01:04:41,700 now i'll leave our listeners just just 1481 01:04:45,690 --> 01:04:43,960 waiting time till the next thing tank 1482 01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:45,700 when probably they will hear bus 1483 01:04:50,820 --> 01:04:47,770 announcement yeah all right cheering 1484 01:04:53,490 --> 01:04:50,830 next time is it possible Smith's do you 1485 01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:53,500 love us for a personality so thank you 1486 01:04:58,230 --> 01:04:55,890 diane for coming alone lovely to see you 1487 01:05:00,960 --> 01:04:58,240 Joe thank you so much for your lovely 1488 01:05:02,460 --> 01:05:00,970 every person and dr. rachy again make 1489 01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:02,470 you feel work and you would operate you 1490 01:05:10,690 --> 01:05:28,200 gross 1491 01:05:32,680 --> 01:05:30,370 thank you very much for listening to 1492 01:05:35,230 --> 01:05:32,690 this week's episode of the skeptics and 1493 01:05:36,940 --> 01:05:35,240 I sure hope you enjoyed it now please if 1494 01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:36,950 you do enjoy listening to the skeptic 1495 01:05:42,460 --> 01:05:38,810 zone and thousands of you do judging by 1496 01:05:44,500 --> 01:05:42,470 the figures please let people know word 1497 01:05:46,270 --> 01:05:44,510 of mouth does more for us than just 1498 01:05:47,980 --> 01:05:46,280 about anything else please let your 1499 01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:47,990 friends and family know that you listen 1500 01:05:53,170 --> 01:05:50,330 to the skeptic zone and they might enjoy 1501 01:05:56,140 --> 01:05:53,180 it to blog about it sing about it write 1502 01:05:57,490 --> 01:05:56,150 about it don't graffiti about it but 1503 01:06:00,220 --> 01:05:57,500 anything like that we'd really 1504 01:06:02,290 --> 01:06:00,230 appreciate it anyway until next week 1505 01:06:07,630 --> 01:06:02,300 this is Richard Saunders signing off 1506 01:06:09,940 --> 01:06:07,640 from Sydney Australia you've been 1507 01:06:14,470 --> 01:06:09,950 listening to the skeptic zone visit our 1508 01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:14,480 website at wwc a petting zoo TV the 1509 01:06:19,310 --> 01:06:16,970 comments contacts and extra video 1510 01:06:24,310 --> 01:06:19,320 reports